2015 post UK election discussion

[The Mighty Quint]

Hopefully come referendum time the country chooses to stay in the EU so we can reap the benefits of TTIP

Looking at the UKIP vote there is a serious chance we leave the EU, Cameron does not want it, but it was another of many policies he announced to buy votes.

 

[marty mcfly]

Point one doesn't hold water. The trickle down effect has never happened and doesn't exist - all that happens is the rich take the extra money and get richer.

Point two, of course it's possible to tax the rich more, every bit as much as it's possible to tax anyone more. The idea they move is a fallacy that has been disproven over and over again - we didn't see a mass exodus during the recession, it won't happen if they had a 5% tax hike. The poor pay more as a percentage of their income in taxes than the rich do.

What do you think they do with it?

Swim in a big money pit like Scrooge McDuck.

They invest it in businesses which in turn create jobs which in turn gets people of the dole which in turn saves money on welfare and brings in tax which in turn can be spent on public services.

That's how money works. It doesn't just land in someone's bank account and stay there. Even the money that does get left in banks it gets reinvested or lent out by the banks.

That's how money works.

 

[Tubey]

What do you think they do with it?

Swim in a big money pit like Scrooge McDuck.

They invest it in businesses which in turn create jobs which in turn gets people of the dole which in turn saves money on welfare and brings in tax which in turn can be spent on public services.

That's how money works. It doesn't just land in someone's bank account and stay there. Even the money that does gets reinvested or lent out by the banks.

That's how money works.

Again, it's been utterly disproven - there is no trickle down effect and there hasn't been for the hundred plus years this theory has knocked about.

Everything you just said is the textbook theory that has absolutely no basis in real practice anywhere in the world.

What has worked is tax breaks for small businesses, driving up the core of an economy which in turn generates a strong economy from the bottom up, not top down. I'm not advocating "socialism" here - I'm saying that the very rich getting richer results in absolutely nothing other than the very rich getting richer.

 

[marty mcfly]

Point one doesn't hold water. The trickle down effect has never happened and doesn't exist - all that happens is the rich take the extra money and get richer.

Point two, of course it's possible to tax the rich more, every bit as much as it's possible to tax anyone more. The idea they move is a fallacy that has been disproven over and over again - we didn't see a mass exodus during the recession, it won't happen if they had a 5% tax hike. The poor pay more as a percentage of their income in taxes than the rich do.

The top 10% also pay for something like 70% of all tax.

 

[Seanjd]

If you have a look at that tweet and see the responses from others you begin to understand why the Tory majority is 'silent'. Anybody who doesn't support Labour or The Greens on social media gets slated and sent ridiculous abuse, which just makes people even more inclined to go the opposite way if they were wavering.

Moronic Labour supporters have a lot to answer for.

I don't understand your final statement, what do they have to answer for? Shy Tories being shy? I don't get it.

 

[marty mcfly]

Again, it's been utterly disproven - there is no trickle down effect and there hasn't been for the hundred plus years this theory has knocked about.

Everything you just said is the textbook theory that has absolutely no basis in real practice anywhere in the world.

What has worked is tax breaks for small businesses, driving up the core of an economy which in turn generates a strong economy from the bottom up, not top down. I'm not advocating "socialism" here - I'm saying that the very rich getting richer results in absolutely nothing other than the very rich getting richer.

Of course there hasn't been. The Tories get into power, fix the economy, act like pigs and we throw them out and then Labour spend it all.

It takes time to work. But don't tell me that things weren't better when Labour came to power under Blair than when they left. Even Blair continued Major's policies for the first term.

 

[Tubey]

The top 10% also pay for something like 70% of all tax.

And pay less as a proportion of their income than the poor do. There's something like an 8% gap I believe, can't think exacts at the moment as I'm shattered.

Point being, tax system is already unfair in terms of net to the poor.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Neither i managed to think of that for myself. Not original granted but hey ho thats what you get with Conservative thicko's

Maybe the journalists at the Guardian need to brush up on their brainwashing skills?

 

[kenada_blue]

I thought the Lib Dems would implode. The sold out their ideological view of most of the people who voted for them. They moved into the centre when most Lib Dems are left. Plus they broke their pledge.

I just expect the votes to go to Labour and was expecting a hung parliament.

But I suppose it's possible that the tactical voting of the last election played a role artificially inflating their vote, voters who moved back to Tory.

Put it this way I haven't found a better reason except the people must have been scared of Ed Balls running the economy.

Seriously - the conservatives where governing in a coalition and after 5 years of austerity Labour still can't get in. And people think Miliband should have stayed on?

But not by 4million voters, that's a absolute shocker and a massive swing.

It was a lot of factors than the Ed Balls/Economy one.

To me, the economy and austerity problem was pretty much pushed aside for immigration - so that sealed the UKIP vote.

The Tory campaign in general was a very lackluster one, you have to agree? They never got out of 2nd gear with it - hammered on the TV debate, not turning up for one, being criticised for not being passionate enough - but still won. They did it being in a strong position and only had to really gain a reasonable number which they did.

Labour just weren't clear on an angle for me to sway more voters. All the other minority parties did and got a big pull.

 

[marty mcfly]

Again, it's been utterly disproven - there is no trickle down effect and there hasn't been for the hundred plus years this theory has knocked about.

Everything you just said is the textbook theory that has absolutely no basis in real practice anywhere in the world.

What has worked is tax breaks for small businesses, driving up the core of an economy which in turn generates a strong economy from the bottom up, not top down. I'm not advocating "socialism" here - I'm saying that the very rich getting richer results in absolutely nothing other than the very rich getting richer.

I actually agree with that completely.

I wouldn't want to vote Tory but they're better than Labour.

 

[Tubey]

Of course there hasn't been. The Tories get into power, fix the economy, act like pigs and we throw them out and then Labour spend it all.

It takes time to work. But don't tell me that things weren't better when Labour came to power under Blair than when they left. Even Blair continued Major's policies for the first term.

I said anywhere in the world. United States, Australia, anywhere you care to mention. It has never worked - it's a theory. The minute the rich get money, they just get more money.

http://www.theguardian.com/business/2012/jul/21/offshore-wealth-global-economy-tax-havens

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Looking at the UKIP vote there is a serious chance we leave the EU, Cameron does not want it, but it was another of many policies he announced to buy votes.

And I think we've ascertained that the British public are thickies who can't be trusted with anything.

 

[harris78]

Maybe the journalists at the Guardian need to brush up on their brainwashing skills?

Next time they will have to employ Darren Brown

 

[davek]

Looking at the UKIP vote there is a serious chance we leave the EU, Cameron does not want it, but it was another of many policies he announced to buy votes.

Cant see it mate. By the time that referendum comes along the Tories will have been given a bone by the EU to take back with him and that + a media and business community whipped up into a frenzy of propaganda against the move will persuade a landslide of people against the idea. IIRC the current polling on it is that about 55% of people want to stay in.

 

[Seanjd]

I thought the Lib Dems would implode. The sold out their ideological view of most of the people who voted for them. They moved into the centre when most Lib Dems are left. Plus they broke their pledge.

I just expect the votes to go to Labour and was expecting a hung parliament.

But I suppose it's possible that the tactical voting of the last election played a role artificially inflating their vote, voters who moved back to Tory.

Put it this way I haven't found a better reason except the people must have been scared of Ed Balls running the economy.

Seriously - the conservatives where governing in a coalition and after 5 years of austerity Labour still can't get in. And people think Miliband should have stayed on?

Your last last statement can go either way though can't it. Last election Tories couldn't get a majority even with the most unpopular Labour leader if all time. This time around, Labour have proven to be even less popular and Tories can only just scrape a majority. I can't see labour winning in the next 15 years though.

As for your point about Balls and the economy, I don't think that's true. The election was lost for many reasons, namely a Scottish wipeout and a scaremongering right wing press. People bought into the Scottish scare factor.