13 points out of 10 games

[Groucho]

Let's keep it friendly please lads.

 

[Groucho]

So, just to be clear...whilst the question itself may be a good one...

Do you and @Groucho believe that motivation has been a problem this season? That the players on the pitch could have played better had they wanted to? Could have got more points had they wanted to?

Because I'd be interested to know, genuinely, what you think the indicators of that are?

I just confess, as stated above, I see inexperience and consequential inconsistency as the spanner in the works, not motivation.

Devils advocate mate. Discussion trigger to deviate from the seeds of bickering being sown in this thread.

Hypothetical question and that. I don't think our players are under-motivated personally, just a general football-world-wide question.

 

[mkrudden]

Devils advocate mate. Discussion trigger to deviate from the seeds of bickering being sown in this thread.

Hypothetical question and that. I don't think our players are under-motivated personally, just a general football-world-wide question.

Ah fair enough. As I say, I was genuinely interested.

 

[ianefc]

Form is the how well a team plays are you mixing it up with results?

I'd like to win every game between now and the end of the season, truth be told, but that won't happen sadly.

Form is how well a team plays? Table list teams results in the last (usually 6 games) is a form table.

My battery is about to die I'm off now.


Good night lads n ladies. Decent debate to be fair. Especially @mkrudden @Titus Bramble

 

[Groucho]

Ah fair enough. As I say, I was genuinely interested.

I don't think our players are under motivated any more that other top teams.

Possibly more motivated than others actually, if they all genuinely want 4th.

Is that due to Martinez or an individual player's nature?

 

[Tree13]

Hold on, Martinez is being criticised for defensive frailties this season and being too gung ho...but we've become tougher to beat than at any time since he's been here.

You cant have it both ways.

Defensive frailties + gung ho attacking play = lots of score draws. Against powerhouses like Watford, Bournemouth and Norwich. We should NEVER be conceding three goals to the likes of Bournemouth. Add to that the fact that despite all this attacking play we are almost exclusively reliant on Lukaku for goals, and we have a recipe for impending disaster. Kone has played 420+ minutes in the last five games and has zero goals and zero assists to show for it - and this is the guy keeping Mirallas on the bench whilst we fail to finish off a multitude of chances created in the last few games.

 

[Little Ralphy]

So, just to be clear...whilst the question itself may be a good one...

Do you and @Groucho believe that motivation has been a problem this season? That the players on the pitch could have played better had they wanted to? Could have got more points had they wanted to?

Because I'd be interested to know, genuinely, what you think the indicators of that are?

I just confess, as stated above, I see inexperience and consequential inconsistency as the spanner in the works, not motivation.

I don't think they're under motivated no. As I said the majority of the players should be highly motivated this season because of the Euros. Part of my post was asking the question of Mirallas and Kone. I understand Martinez doesn't want to play with two wingers like that, but I'm sure if he wanted to, he could get much more out of Mirallas this season than he could of Kone.

I'm not sure I really agree that inexperience is the problem either. Galloway aside none of the players are that inexperienced. Barkley, Deulofeu, Stones and Lukaku are all earlier in their careers than some, but they've played a lot of games at a high level. What they lack in experience they more than make up for in ability.

Inconsistency can be an issue. But not for Lukaku, he's possibly our most consistent performer. Deulofeu as I've said many a time in various threads, is the kind of winger who will not give you 90 mins at the same level. Whether that's due to his concentration/focus declining, tiredness creeping in or the opposition changing tact to stop him. That's why I think Mirallas should have come on for Kone against Norwich to give us a different outlet. Take the pressure off Deulofeu and give Norwich something else to think about. It's a bold sub to make at 1-1 though when the side is struggling in the match. Barkley is massively inconsistent, while he has confidence in his ability, he doesn't seem to really try to influence the game as much as he could. He may never learn that side of the game to be fair as it can be a character trait. Like Gerrard without the OCD.


For me the issues are how the side is set up. Martinez seems to like to go man for man at the back. He praised Alcaraz when we signed him saying he liked the South American defenders who go man for man, as opposed to the European type who will pull in the full backs. This obviously allows our full backs to bomb on, which is great going forward, but as soon as it breaks down we get out numbered and look vulnerable on the counter. Every time we lose the ball it seems like the opposition will get a chance at our goal. I'd love to see MArtinez address this, but bar some attempts last season which didn't work at all, he's almost given it up. He either needs to curb a few players, or give someone strict orders to stay disciplined and cover. Perhaps if Barry was more mobile then it wouldn't be as much of an issue. But it is, and it's incredibly frustrating watching an Everton side struggle to beat sides we have the talent to beat with ease.

 

[TommyDavo]

Can't we agree that we are in a reasonable rather than great position and that results aren't reflective of some of the performances and that hopefully that can be addressed?

I honestly fail to see what else there is anymore.

Results are reflective of the performances though. You can't miss chances like we did against Norwich and not expect to possibly come unstuck, similar with Palace and a total shouldering of arms in the second half vs Bournemouth. It's ok being great going forward but if you fail to convert the chances, then a poor defence, which is what we have, will always let you down. And I don't just mean the 5 at the back in that.

 

[Prevenger17]

and this is the guy keeping Mirallas on the bench whilst we fail to finish off a multitude of chances created in the last few games.

Yeah, I thought Mirallas really laid down his case to start in the last match...

 

[Dithering Dougie]

Yeah, I thought Mirallas really laid down his case to start in the last match...

At least it was better than his Swan song I suppose..


Oh no! but let's blame Martinez for not playing anyway...

it's less rational of course but I've always said Kone is crap like...

 

[Titus Bramble]

Many people agree that Kone being on the pitch improves Lukaku's performances. Would replacing him with Mirallas be detrimental to Lukaku? Alrite he might perform better as an individual than Kone but it's about the team and if our main goal threat is slightly nullified then what is the gain?

I'm not suggesting Kone shouldn't be dropped, just making the point.

 

[Prevenger17]

So by you constant posturing, picking and choosing which points you want to acknowledge and a new ability to tell lies (see posts about me only posting after draws and loses) I'll take it that you do think 17 wins from 54 and 70 from a possible 162 is good enough.

Lol

A man under no expectations cannot fail.

Is that so Ian?

Well in that case, let me take you back to a different time, a time when Everton had reached the finishing line of a rotten year and the wheels of the post-season inquisition were turning. A man named Ianefc, like a lot of us, was displeased at what he saw and offered this nugget of foresight:

When analysis those four I would say that We have another major issue here Pienaar fitness means he will rarely be avaliable, McGeady is awful, Mirallas wants out and Deulofeu is crocked at the worse time as he's gonna miss pre-season which looking back players who don't get a full pre-season rarely get going until the later part of the season.

This really is a horrible moment in our recent history from top to bottom we have a truly woeful board, either a poor manager or a deluded one who is trying to get champagne football out of Bucks Fizz players, an inept goalkeeper, 2 established CB's one of which looks to be wanting out, a totally u creative central midfield area, winger a subject ice touched upon and 1 striker as I'm not going to include Kone, because I simply don't want to.

We are goosed, this squad needs 3-5 quality first team ready additions without losing 1 single player (except McGeady an Kone)

Last time things were this depressing was when Rooney left and at that point we'd only sighed Cahill an Bent, so you never know. But I genuinely do fear for us.

Now, it seems to me that there was someone on this forum who could, indeed, be rightly accused of having low expectations.

His expectations were so low coming into this season, they wouldn't have been able to get on a kid's ride at Disneyworld. We were "goosed". Deulofeu wouldn't get going until the latter half of the season. And don't even talk about Kone, we wouldn't want that. We needed 3-5 players and, if I'm reading this correctly, this man feared for us.

This man was you, Ianefc.

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I know you're tired and want to go home to your family, but I want to outline the hypocrisy on display here, so you can get a feel for the man who stands before you.

He accuses the honorable @davek, a noble and spirited warrior, of having low expectations, while he practically gave up on the season before a ball was kicked. Well, if 10th place with 3 points separating us and the top 5 was worse than Ian expected, what must his low expectations have been? Top of the league? Winning the FA Cup?

What about the prospect of our "Buck's Fizz players" playing "champagne football?". Martinez will never manage it, will he Ian?

I say nay. We are 16 games into a season whose overriding characteristic has been tightness. Competitiveness. Very few points separating teams caught in the midtable mudslide, no quarter being given by the traditionally lower placed teams.

And it brings me back to my point. Expectations. Who has the lowest expectations? Davek, the man who believes Martinez will lead us to the promised land of a cup win? Or Ian, the man who thought we would play turdball all the way into the Championship?

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, enjoy the football El Conquistador is serving up and make up your own mind about tomorrow. Make no mistake, we are 16 games in and can only play a game of forecasts. And, if I may be so bold, I question the predictions of a man who thought we should sell Lukaku in the summer.

 

[Titus Bramble]

Oh my

 

[Saint Domingo]

Is that so Ian?

Well in that case, let me take you back to a different time, a time when Everton had reached the finishing line of a rotten year and the wheels of the post-season inquisition were turning. A man named Ianefc, like a lot of us, was displeased at what he saw and offered this nugget of foresight:

Now, it seems to me that there was someone on this forum who could, indeed, be rightly accused of having low expectations.

His expectations were so low coming into this season, they wouldn't have been able to get on a kid's ride at Disneyworld. We were "goosed". Deulofeu wouldn't get going until the latter half of the season. And don't even talk about Kone, we wouldn't want that. We needed 3-5 players and, if I'm reading this correctly, this man feared for us.

This man was you, Ianefc.

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, I know you're tired and want to go home to your family, but I want to outline the hypocrisy on display here, so you can get a feel for the man who stands before you.

He accuses the honorable @davek, a noble and spirited warrior, of having low expectations, while he practically gave up on the season before a ball was kicked. Well, if 10th place with 3 points separating us and the top 5 was worse than Ian expected, what must his low expectations have been? Top of the league? Winning the FA Cup?

What about the prospect of our "Buck's Fizz players" playing "champagne football?". Martinez will never manage it, will he Ian?

I say nay. We are 16 games into a season whose overriding characteristic has been tightness. Competitiveness. Very few points separating teams caught in the midtable mudslide, no quarter being given by the traditionally lower placed teams.

And it brings me back to my point. Expectations. Who has the lowest expectations? Davek, the man who believes Martinez will lead us to the promised land of a cup win? Or Ian, the man who thought we would play turdball all the way into the Championship?

Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, enjoy the football El Conquistador is serving up and make up your own mind about tomorrow. Make no mistake, we are 16 games in and can only play a game of forecasts. And, if I may be so bold, I question the predictions of a man who thought we should sell Lukaku in the summer.

What an odd post. You obviously put time into it as well. How strange.

 

[Dithering Dougie]

Omg @ianefc had his pants pulled right down and spanked in front of the class. What along with @Saint Domingo admitting earlier he thought the last ten games have gone okay and @Little Ralphy being trapped on the Swindon magic roundabout it looks like the insurgence has been cleared.

Well played team.