13 points out of 10 games

[mkrudden]

Point to where I said there was a table on any website ranking the style of football teams play?

Crazy talk Ian. You're just derailing this debate.

He's right Ian

 

[blue to the bone]

But they aren't saying the seasons finished mate. If we finished 10th I think the pro Martinez would be in the minority as appose the majority, which they no doubt currently are.

There are people here who dont want martinez as manager and some who never did . That's a fact . And some are happy to keep criticising at every opportunity. That's their opinion and are entitled to it.
Just seems a bid sad to me and a weird outlook but that's just my opinion. Thing about opinions is everyone has one and no one can say who is right or wrong

 

[mkrudden]

The naivety in this post should be applauded.

Football is one of the most competitive professions there is. To even get to sign professional forms means you have achieved more than thousands upon thousands of hopefuls. To get to Premier League level even more so. It amazes me people don't realise what a cruel industry football actually is.

There is a reason most footballers have a tremendous self belief, and believe me they need it. Once they hit the first team it's an entirely results orientated business.

They are still people Ralphy.

 

[ilikecheese]

There are people here who dont want martinez as manager and some who never did . That's a fact . And some are happy to keep criticising at every opportunity. That's their opinion and are entitled to it.
Just seems a bid sad to me and a weird outlook but that's just my opinion. Thing about opinions is everyone has one and no one can say who is right or wrong

Ian is one of them. We could win the League Cup, FA Cup, the League, the Champions League, the World Series, the Super Bowl, and the World Cup, but after our next bad performance Ian would pipe right up.

 

[Groucho]

They are still people Ralphy.

Rich people though.

The humongous amount they get in wages, combined with the sheer magnificence of being an Everton player, should be enough to motivate anyone to play out of their skin each week. Should. But is it?

That's as much a debate as any tactical query - how does Martinez (or any manager) motivate millionaires?

 

[Dithering Dougie]

Ian is one of them. We could win the League Cup, FA Cup, the League, the Champions League, the World Series, the Super Bowl, and the World Cup, but after our next bad performance Ian would pipe right up.

Copy that Cheese.

Over.

 

[mkrudden]

Rich people though.

The humongous amount they get in wages, combined with the sheer magnificence of being an Everton player, should be enough to motivate anyone to play out of their skin each week. Should. But is it?

That's as much a debate as any tactical query - how does Martinez (or any manager) motivate millionaires?

I just don't see it like that. Money can buy you the best boots, personal trainers, chefs...

But it can't buy you maturity, experience, games, decision making. Only time can.

I don't think there is a motivation problem, I think there needs to be more consistency however 7/11 first team players recently gave been inexperienced/young players.

 

[davek]

Tough to beat, not losing, defensively sound. To add to your recent Elstone and Neville impressions you've now got your mate Davey Moyes down to a tee. Progress that's not reflected in the league table? Sounds a bit like winning without winning to me. Any manager can sacrifice defensive solidity for attacking guile and vice versa. A good manager finds a winning balance. The question that needs asking is as Martinez has progressed with his squad remoulding why have we found that winning balance less and less since his first season? Not expecting an answer.

Hold on, Martinez is being criticised for defensive frailties this season and being too gung ho...but we've become tougher to beat than at any time since he's been here.

You cant have it both ways.

 

[Groucho]

I just don't see it like that. Money can buy you the best boots, personal trainers, chefs...

But it can't buy you maturity, experience, games, decision making. Only time can.

I don't think there is a motivation problem, I think there needs to be more consistency however 7/11 first team players recently gave been inexperienced/young players.

A lot are young, yes.

 

[ianefc]

Point to where I said there was a table on any website ranking the style of football teams play?

Crazy talk Ian. You're just derailing this debate.

Someone earlier posted about our form not being good enough and that's why we're 10th

You replied by saying form is our performance level.

I disagree

 

[Dithering Dougie]

Someone earlier posted about our form not being good enough and that's why we're 10th

You replied by saying form is our performance level.

I disagree

Even though I never said that Ian that's got nothing to do with websites and tables mate.

Keep focussing mate, we've lost Ralphy and the Gaffers flagging by the looks.

 

[Little Ralphy]

That's as much a debate as any tactical query - how does Martinez (or any manager) motivate millionaires?

That's an excellent question, and the answer will be different for different players.

Moyes seemed to have success with model professionals, players whose career had fallen off the rails a bit, players who wanted to play in a major tournament or players whose contracts were coming to an end. Everyone else was bombed out or ignored, hence why we never really had any flair to the side.

With this season having a Euros on the end of it, you would expect a lot of our players to be motivated to play well to ensure a starting or squad place for their nation. Lukaku for sure, same for Barkley, Deulofeu, Baines, Jags, Stones, less so McCarthy and Coleman as their places seem assured.

What gets me is that Mirallas really should be on fire as well as he needs to play out of his skin if he wants to get in that Belgium squad. Yet he's not really getting a look in and instead we see 'happy to be here' Kone preferred. Kone is at the wrong end of his career and it shows in his performances. People can say Mirallas hasn't played well for a while etc. but there is no doubting the lads talent, we should really be seeing his desire to get in the Belgian squad utilised over the coming months. Remember Jelavic when he wanted to play for Croatia?

This is also why I think Howard and Barry need replacing in the side as well. They're model professionals and you'll get solid 7's from them most weeks, but you won't get much more than that, and if you want to push on and achieve something you need a certain type of player.

 

[Little Ralphy]

Even though I never said that Ian that's got nothing to do with websites and tables mate.

Keep focussing mate, we've lost Ralphy and the Gaffers flagging by the looks.

Don't worry dd, I've just realised there is no point. You pick and choose what you answer and change your argument to suit. It's becoming obvious you've never seen us win anything, so I'll leave you to celebrate mediocrity. You're obviously the one buzzing leaving the ground after drawing with Palace or Norwich.

 

[mkrudden]

That's an excellent question, and the answer will be different for different players.

Moyes seemed to have success with model professionals, players whose career had fallen off the rails a bit, players who wanted to play in a major tournament and players whose contracts were coming to an end. Everyone else was bombed out or ignored, hence why we never really had any flair to the side.

With this season having a Euros on the end of it, you would expect a lot of our players to be motivated to play well to ensure a starting or squad place for their nation. Lukaku for sure, same for Barkley, Deulofeu, Baines, Jags, Stones, less so McCarthy and Coleman as their places seem assured.

What gets me is that Mirallas really should be on fire as well as he needs to play out of his skin if he wants to get in that Belgium squad. Yet he's not really getting a look in and instead we see 'happy to be here' Kone preferred. Kone is at the wrong end of his career and it shows in his performances. People can say Mirallas hasn't played well for a while etc. but there is no doubting the lads talent, we should really be seeing his desire to get in the Belgian squad utilised over the coming months. Remember Jelavic when he wanted to play for Croatia?

This is also why I think Howard and Barry need replacing in the side as well. They're model professionals and you'll get solid 7's from them most weeks, but you won't get much more than that, and if you want to push on and achieve something you need a certain type of player.

So, just to be clear...whilst the question itself may be a good one...

Do you and @Groucho believe that motivation has been a problem this season? That the players on the pitch could have played better had they wanted to? Could have got more points had they wanted to?

Because I'd be interested to know, genuinely, what you think the indicators of that are?

I just confess, as stated above, I see inexperience and consequential inconsistency as the spanner in the works, not motivation.

 

[ianefc]

There are people here who dont want martinez as manager and some who never did . That's a fact . And some are happy to keep criticising at every opportunity. That's their opinion and are entitled to it.
Just seems a bid sad to me and a weird outlook but that's just my opinion. Thing about opinions is everyone has one and no one can say who is right or wrong

I'll never get on board with the argument that people who didn't want Martinez in the first place have an argument that carries less weight. Never. Simply because surely the form of past 18 months was partially expected by them posters. As in not good enough, or you'd have to concede people at the other end of the spectrum, the same the ones who wanted him, the ones who won't acknowledge our form, the ones who will not criticise him no matter what, the ones who will blame our players, board, former manager, 'pissy pant moaning fans' but never acknowledge Martinez is anything other than perfect. Despite 17 wins in 54. We all want Everton to win, a bi-product of that is Martinez doing well, not the other way round. Everton and their results count.