13 points out of 10 games

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bluemangroup said:
Can't we agree that we are in a reasonable rather than great position and that results aren't reflective of some of the performances and that hopefully that can be addressed?

I honestly fail to see what else there is anymore.
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Aren't they though? A team can be great going forward all they want, but if you can't defend you won't get the results. It really is that simple.

Add to that we've scored 29 goals in 16 games which sounds great, until you remember we scored 10 of them in 2 matches against the bottom 2 clubs.

If people want to happy watching half a game of football, then good for them.
 

mkrudden said:
I think you are far too rigid in here mate. Blinkered. Whether it's the view you hold or the debate at hand.

Let's rewind...



This is the part which I disagreed with. I then used the example of someone who works in an office.

You obviously accepted it as a response but disagreed with it. Fair play:



The bit in bold is the key here. To me it says 'we are a big club, we expect big performances, title wins, cup wins etc". Is that not fair? To do those things, specifically win the big prize - titles, but also the next step down, to challenge for the top 4, you need consistency, power players in the dressing room who HAVE wons things and can teach these fledglings on the job how/what to do through a long hard season.

My response simply is, we may be a traditionally big club, however very few of our players have won major honours. My point regarding the Funes Mori is justified as the european leagues are the biggest and best in the world. That surely isnt up for debate is it?

So my final post to you was a whistle-stop tour of players as I tried to recollect who in our team should be guiding these players to consistency, to the top 4. We have about 3 'winners' dont we. Howard with Man Utd, Barry with City and Gibson with Man Utd. It isnt enough. Instead we have to hope these quality young players figure it out for themselves. This isnt ideal, granted, but you play the cards you're dealt with. The winners of this world cost £20mil plus if you want them at an age where they can also make a difference on the pitch themselves.

So to answer your question I think it is completely understandable that we have a squad of players who struggle for consistency and subsequently struggle to challenge for top honours and league places when its made up of kids with quality and players who have never shown any consistency in their careers thus far including winning honours.
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To answer this. You've started off with a massive assumption. Where have I even mentioned trophy wins, top 4s or anything like that? Nowhere. My original point was that we shouldn't indulge a squad who can't play under pressure. You're making it all about young players as a reason for this failing, I then pointed out that hardly any of the players are inexperienced in our first 11. You've taken this to mean that I'm going on about how many winners we have? Where have I said that? You've then made a massive assumption that you need players who have won a load of stuff to improve your consistency in the league. This has no evidence to it whatsoever as shown by Moyes taking lesser players to high league positions and United winning everything with a load of kids. To cap it off you continue to skew the trophy stats of our team to fit your agenda. If I did buy your premise, which I don't, then where is Cleverleys trophies and why are you denigrating other league's trophies?

When you are ready to debate without assigning these unrepresentative and over exaggerated view points to me then we can.
 
blue to the bone said:
Maybe not you mate but there are posters who are more or less saying we are tenth and that's where the season ends. Just saying let's see what happens. If Performances keep goin as they are results will follow.
But I'm someone who is enjoying the football and am realistic as well so maybe that counts against me here with a lot
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But they aren't saying the seasons finished mate. If we finished 10th I think the pro Martinez would be in the minority as appose the majority, which they no doubt currently are.
 

deipnosophist said:
The real issue is not whether us supporters are happy (or not) with a points total, the issue is that it is vital we do not convey any possible dissatisfaction with what points we've got. Our players would pick up on it and hence feel pressure (leading to further underperformance due to Everton's noted characteristic of wilting under weight of said). Basically, we need to protect our players from any weight of expectation...if we want to get the best out of them.
So basically, yes, I am rapt with the points total the lads have compiled to date this season
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The naivety in this post should be applauded.

Football is one of the most competitive professions there is. To even get to sign professional forms means you have achieved more than thousands upon thousands of hopefuls. To get to Premier League level even more so. It amazes me people don't realise what a cruel industry football actually is.

There is a reason most footballers have a tremendous self belief, and believe me they need it. Once they hit the first team it's an entirely results orientated business.
 

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