ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC" part 3

[tommye]

You're a good dar, mate!

Sounds better than my 'education'...
When I was about the same age as your lad, I used to have giant posters of He-Man, Thunder Cats, and the Ninja Turtles all over my wall.
And what my old man used to do, was sneak into my room in the middle of the night, and strategically place posters of Everton players in-between them.

Didn't even notice that Southall, Linekar, et al., were poking their heads out between the big ones.

Then one day, I woke up, realised that I was an Everton supporter, and had no clue has to how it happened!

I was born blue.
I was barely minutes old (was born at my grandparent's house) and my grandad wrapped me in an Everton rug he had made after the 66 Cup final win.
First game week of my 3rd birthday.
52 years later I'm still fighting the good fight and spreading the gospel to the unwashed.

UTFT

 

[Tommy Chong]

I was born blue.
I was barely minutes old (was born at my grandparent's house) and my grandad wrapped me in an Everton rug he had made after the 66 Cup final win.
First game week of my 3rd birthday.
52 years later I'm still fighting the good fight and spreading the gospel to the unwashed.

UTFT

 

[davek]

Thoughtful piece by tuttosport on the Chieva song business...

Chiesa gol, la curva Liverpool insulta la Juve: il coro che imbarazza tutti

Un "vaffa" è poca cosa, ma la provenienza cambia tutto perché quella ferita di quarant'anni fa non si è mai rimarginata

www.tuttosport.com

Forty years after the Heysel tragedy, the Juventus fans, in the 39th minute of every match, chant "I hate Liverpool." It's a way of never forgetting the victims of May 29, 1985, but it also ends up keeping alive a resentment that, perhaps, forty years later, some will process differently. Anyone familiar with the history of Heysel knows full well that the real perpetrators of that massacre are the Belgian authorities and the organizers of that final: they made every mistake they could in a hellish sequence of superficiality, incompetence, and stupidity. Because if, in a corner of a stadium, there are the infamous Liverpool hooligans, known everywhere for their violence, separated from thousands of "normal" spectators by a fake fence, similar to those used to enclose chicken coops, the question is who organized everyone more than the hooligans. Then, of course, it was the English, full of alcohol (easily found in Brussels), who charged the spectators who, frightened, recoiled in a terrifying way, causing the death of the thirty-nine by crushing, suffocation or by the collapse of the wall of the dilapidated King Baudouin stadium (the choice of which for the final had been another great idea by UEFA).

Anger, resentment, and hatred are useless.

Over the years, Juventus and Liverpool, as clubs, have always tried not to fuel hatred between their two fan bases (the English have never missed the May 29th celebrations), but it's inevitably human that that memory still bleeds, and that the search for someone to blame in such an absurd affair can also generate anger. Unfortunately, however, anger, resentment, and hatred are dangerously fertile ground for further potential tragedies. And that's why the Liverpool chant makes those on both sides uncomfortable, who have attempted reconciliation, even if only to honor the memory of the 1985 victims with love. In short, while many of those who frequent the Liverpool stands today have likely only heard about Heysel, that chant is inappropriate, because it's unnecessary to fuel further acrimony. And Liverpool fans should know this well, victims, like Juventus fans, of the infamous fate of being targeted by the crude idiocy of other fan groups who foolishly cheer on the Hillsborough tragedy in which 96 Liverpool fans lost their lives.

I think this chant's got to stop, and it will.

I have to say looking at RAWK there's a lot of decent people saying and demanding exactly that.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Thoughtful piece by tuttosport on the Chieva song business...

Chiesa gol, la curva Liverpool insulta la Juve: il coro che imbarazza tutti

Un "vaffa" è poca cosa, ma la provenienza cambia tutto perché quella ferita di quarant'anni fa non si è mai rimarginata

www.tuttosport.com

Forty years after the Heysel tragedy, the Juventus fans, in the 39th minute of every match, chant "I hate Liverpool." It's a way of never forgetting the victims of May 29, 1985, but it also ends up keeping alive a resentment that, perhaps, forty years later, some will process differently. Anyone familiar with the history of Heysel knows full well that the real perpetrators of that massacre are the Belgian authorities and the organizers of that final: they made every mistake they could in a hellish sequence of superficiality, incompetence, and stupidity. Because if, in a corner of a stadium, there are the infamous Liverpool hooligans, known everywhere for their violence, separated from thousands of "normal" spectators by a fake fence, similar to those used to enclose chicken coops, the question is who organized everyone more than the hooligans. Then, of course, it was the English, full of alcohol (easily found in Brussels), who charged the spectators who, frightened, recoiled in a terrifying way, causing the death of the thirty-nine by crushing, suffocation or by the collapse of the wall of the dilapidated King Baudouin stadium (the choice of which for the final had been another great idea by UEFA).

Anger, resentment, and hatred are useless.

Over the years, Juventus and Liverpool, as clubs, have always tried not to fuel hatred between their two fan bases (the English have never missed the May 29th celebrations), but it's inevitably human that that memory still bleeds, and that the search for someone to blame in such an absurd affair can also generate anger. Unfortunately, however, anger, resentment, and hatred are dangerously fertile ground for further potential tragedies. And that's why the Liverpool chant makes those on both sides uncomfortable, who have attempted reconciliation, even if only to honor the memory of the 1985 victims with love. In short, while many of those who frequent the Liverpool stands today have likely only heard about Heysel, that chant is inappropriate, because it's unnecessary to fuel further acrimony. And Liverpool fans should know this well, victims, like Juventus fans, of the infamous fate of being targeted by the crude idiocy of other fan groups who foolishly cheer on the Hillsborough tragedy in which 96 Liverpool fans lost their lives.

I think this chant's got to stop, and it will.

I have to say looking at RAWK there's a lot of decent people saying and demanding exactly that.

They could have picked any chant for Chiesa. They picked this one. They knew exactly what they were doing. They’ve only started showing some faux outrage now because everyone called them on it. They thought they were untouchable and tried to test the waters on the one thing they wished they could sweep away for ever with their big media machine and the only reason they’re really annoyed is because they were reminded straight away that no one else has or ever will forget about it. They probably expected praise for being ‘boss’ fans with their new edgy song and instead they’ve been called out for the sickening tragedy chanting it is.

Theyre utter scum.

 

[davek]

They could have picked any chant for Chiesa. They picked this one. They knew exactly what they were doing. They’ve only started showing some faux outrage now because everyone called them on it. They thought they were untouchable and tried to test the waters on the one thing they wished they could sweep away for ever with their big media machine and the only reason they’re really annoyed is because they were reminded straight away that no one else has or ever will forget about it. They probably expected praise for being ‘boss’ fans with their new edgy song and instead they’ve been called out for the sickening tragedy chanting it is.

Theyre utter scum.

I was (pleasantly) surprised that a lot on RAWK were pushing back against the Chiesa chant, realising what an insult it was and what terrible optics it causes.

This morning one of them posts this though:

So from what I can see, the timeline is more like....

From 5 billions years ago, up until October last year - No offence from Juventus fans about Chiesa song, because it doesn't exist

October last year - Chiesa song is created

From October last year up until three days ago - No offence, anywhere, provable amongst Juventus fans. Liverpool fans have subsequently said 'Oh I know people who were' but as yet, still nothing. No offence, anywhere, provable amongst Liverpool fans. Liverpool fans have subsequently said 'Oh I was offended, just didn't say anything about it until now for reasons'.

Three days ago - Tony Evans writes article saying a song about Chiesa makes him feel physically sick

Subsequent three days - Much too'ing and fro'ing around why no-one has mentioned this before, questions still asking for a single piece of evidence around Juventus fans finding it offensive

Yesterday - After days of asking, an article talking about the song being in bad taste and offensive finally exists. Quite clearly, blatantly, on the back of the original clickbait article from Tony Evans

What people have been asking, since Tony Evans article, is about anything from Juventus fans/side about them finding it offensive. And there hasn't been. That one article now exists, published yesterday, is not a slam dunk on people who have been asking for evidence. Because you know, it didn't exist until yesterday.

So here we are, its 2025. And away from actual serious issues, a completely innocent song about a footballer to 'Sway' is likely to be 'cancelled' because one miserable bloke with a platform decided to stir up some anger where there wasn't any. What a sad state of affairs.

'Is anyone offended by this? No? Well you should be, here's why. Offended now? Excellent. Cancel it.'

Talk about lack of self-awareness and ahistoricism.

 

[Saint Domingo]

I was (pleasantly) surprised that a lot on RAWK were pushing back against the Chiesa chant, realising what an insult it was and what terrible optics it causes.

This morning one of them posts this though:



Talk about lack of self-awareness and ahistoricism.

Had their chance to apologise in 2005 and couldn’t bring themselves to do. Entitled
narcissists. Perfect response from the Juventus fans that night giving them the middle finger.

 

[davek]

Had their chance to apologise in 2005 and couldn’t bring themselves to do. Entitled
narcissists. Perfect response from the Juventus fans that night giving them the middle finger.

Obviously we're not allowed by the media to understand the level of continued anger of Juve fans, because Heysel didn't happen for anyone living in England - but I've always thought they keep their counsel on Heysel. For Liverpool fans now to use that as proof that they're 'not complaining' is macabre and cynical beyond belief.

 

[Iana]

Obviously we're not allowed by the media to understand the level of continued anger of Juve fans, because Heysel didn't happen for anyone living in England - but I've always thought they keep their counsel on Heysel. For Liverpool fans now to use that as proof that they're 'not complaining' is macabre and cynical beyond belief.

It’s like when they held their parade on a Heysel anniversary date and tried to justify it by saying “we checked with Juventus and they were fine with it”.

 

[davek]

It’s like when they held their parade on a Heysel anniversary date and tried to justify it by saying “we checked with Juventus and they were fine with it”.

They also promised a new Heysel memorial by the end of this summer...

 

[Saint Domingo]

Would love to see this lot rattled by Newcastle at the weekend. Could really put them on the back foot if City and Arsenal both win at home and they’ve dropped points at Newcastle with Arsenal next. Would love to see them under a bit of pressure for a change, I’ve got a feeling Slot would let the mask slip straight away when he’s no longer getting songs of praise 24/7.

 

[Zed Car]

 

[Timbucktoo]

Would love to see this lot rattled by Newcastle at the weekend. Could really put them on the back foot if City and Arsenal both win at home and they’ve dropped points at Newcastle with Arsenal next. Would love to see them under a bit of pressure for a change, I’ve got a feeling Slot would let the mask slip straight away when he’s no longer getting songs of praise 24/7.

We already got a sneak peak of what he`s like when things don`t go their way last season.

 

[davek]

ITV News report this evening. Semenyo speaking at length about the racist attack by Liverpool fans at Klanfield.

https://www.itv.com/watch/news/bournemouths-semenyo-calls-for-tougher-punishments-after-reporting-racist-abuse-at-anfield/dvyjpyj

 

[davek]

Tony Evans says he'd rather walk alone after getting hundreds of death threats over his criticism of the Chiesa-Juventus song scandal.

https://tonyevans92a.substack.com/p/tarts-turin-and-tantrums

 

[Gwladys St. Glory]

I was (pleasantly) surprised that a lot on RAWK were pushing back against the Chiesa chant, realising (after they were reminded) what an insult it was and what terrible optics it causes.