Transfer Rumour Harry Winks

[GoldenToffee]

Everybody thinks he's some 21-year-old with amazing potential, when really he's 27 in seven months and, if offered a four-year contract, would almost certainly go on to become yet another expensive Everton signing released on a free transfer as he'd be an unsellable asset after four seasons. You'd think we would have learned our lesson after releasing literally £200m plus worth of signings for absolutely nothing, but apparently not. The laughable 'free' signing of Alli was bad enough, this would be just as terrible.

 

[wandyr79]

cockney John Ebbrell

Hate to be pedantic, actually no, I quite like it.

He was born in Hemel Hempstead

 

[wandyr79]

Everybody thinks he's some 21-year-old with amazing potential, when really he's 27 in seven months and, if offered a four-year contract, would almost certainly go on to become yet another expensive Everton signing released on a free transfer as he'd be an unsellable asset after four seasons. You'd think we would have learned our lesson after releasing literally £200m plus worth of signings for absolutely nothing, but apparently not. The laughable 'free' signing of Alli was bad enough, this would be just as terrible.

I can play this game too, Everybody thinks he is a 34 year old has been who has never played a game of football in his life and I can't believe we are signing him for £70m.

Come on, I have not seen a single post that even comes close to claiming him to be an up and coming superstar. The pro posts have generally come with a sense of reality and a sense that if he was part of a bigger plan then we will see.

27 is not actually a bad age, if he is good enough as a footballer then I would say that is a good age, considering where we are at. A couple of experienced pros alongside some potential and maybe we might have a plan, only time will tell.

 

[toffee-L]

If Gomes was good, injury free, and 25 why would we sell him?

For the same reason we will probably sell Richarlison this summer - to comply with the rules.

And then you take the money you get from them, invest it in up and comers that have been properly scouted, give them appropriate contracts and when the time comes in a few years once they've shown their worth, sell them for a big profit and the cycle starts again.

 

[kenada_blue]

For the same reason we will probably sell Richarlison this summer - to comply with the rules.

And then you take the money you get from them, invest it in up and comers that have been properly scouted, give them appropriate contracts and when the time comes in a few years once they've shown their worth, sell them for a big profit and the cycle starts again.

No club does that with an entire squad of players. It's done with a handful. We have a handful that fit that.

It's footy manager delusion

 

[toffee-L]

No club does that with an entire squad of players. It's done with a handful. We have a handful that fit that.

It's footy manager delusion

We have allowed £160m worth of players to walk out the door for absolutely nothing in the last few years, players who have been not been part of our first team that have been getting paid huge salaries to either sit on the bench or play for other clubs. Stop comparing to us to other clubs, we are in a basket of our own for how monumentally bad we've cocked this up and we need to take a drastic course to correct it whilst simultaneously making sure we don't compromise ourselves on the pitch.

Footy manager delusion? Pardon me for being concerned that a business losing £100m every year whilst sinking 90% of its turnover into the back pockets of players that nearly relegate us should probably look to sell some players and deploy a more self-sustaining model moving forwards. How very awful of me.

 

[wandyr79]

We have allowed £160m worth of players to walk out the door for absolutely nothing in the last few years, players who have been not been part of our first team that have been getting paid huge salaries to either sit on the bench or play for other clubs. Stop comparing to us to other clubs, we are in a basket of our own for how monumentally bad we've cocked this up and we need to take a drastic course to correct it whilst simultaneously making sure we don't compromise ourselves on the pitch.

Footy manager delusion? Pardon me for being concerned that a business losing £100m every year whilst sinking 90% of its turnover into the back pockets of players that nearly relegate us should probably look to sell some players and deploy a more self-sustaining model moving forwards. How very awful of me.

It is about balance though, you are right, there should be a more sustainable approach to the signings but we also need to consider that the first 11 needs a complete overhaul. Neither can be done overnight but to get to a point where we can realistically think about younger players with a more positive outlook on any potential sell on value is to get us in a position where we can do that without ignoring the fact that we need a better 'here and now' plan.

We have had neither for a few years now, so the argument is, what comes first? I very much doubt they can be both be done at exactly the same time (in our situation), in regards to players that can come in to the first team and improve us. Younger players may take a little longer to fit in than more experienced players. There is an argument that we stabilise the first eleven in the here and now, with more experienced players, who may or may not have sell on values, and then work more on the financial aspect once we are on a bit more steadier ground.

Buying/loaning a 26 year old is not the end of the world. If you don't think he is good enough, then fair enough but as a business model it is not necessarily going to continue to sink us, as long as the rest of the summer is used to get players as part of the same plan, for on the pitch.

 

[toffee-L]

OK . I'll refer to ur point that no other club sells players at a loss and loses money on them only us. If you can prove this solely based on player trading then I will accept your point..

Whether you accept my point that we are the only club that is struggling to comply with P&S rules is unimportant, as it's a fact you simply can't argue against.

And I never said that we are the only club that sells players at a loss. To be clear, selling players at a loss would be marked improvement on what we do, which is keep players round for the duration of their contracts, often paying them in the meantime to play for other clubs before finally giving them for nothing.

 

[toffee-L]

It is about balance though, you are right, there should be a more sustainable approach to the signings but we also need to consider that the first 11 needs a complete overhaul. Neither can be done overnight but to get to a point where we can realistically think about younger players with a more positive outlook on any potential sell on value is to get us in a position where we can do that without ignoring the fact that we need a better 'here and now' plan.

We have had neither for a few years now, so the argument is, what comes first? I very much doubt they can be both be done at exactly the same time (in our situation), in regards to players that can come in to the first team and improve us. Younger players may take a little longer to fit in than more experienced players. There is an argument that we stabilise the first eleven in the here and now, with more experienced players, who may or may not have sell on values, and then work more on the financial aspect once we are on a bit more steadier ground.

Buying/loaning a 26 year old is not the end of the world. If you don't think he is good enough, then fair enough but as a business model it is not necessarily going to continue to sink us, as long as the rest of the summer is used to get players as part of the same plan, for on the pitch.

To be clear, I agree with your point entirely and you share many sentiments that I also have.

I absolutely have no problems with brining in 25-26 year olds of the right profile. Winks simply does not fit that profile for me, although I would accept him on a straight loan deal.

I realise I am probably in a minority here, but if there was a market in which it could happen I'd be selling Richarlison, Calvert-Lewin and Pickford this summer, and trying to cart out a lot more dross behind them. I spoke all season long about the fact that our team is just so poor and that I wanted to see it completely overhauled, so just because a select few players finally got their arses in gear towards the end of the season does not pull the wool over my eyes. We have an extremely bad team and I'd rather roll the dice on trying something new rather than watch the same disappointments deliver another wretched season.

I believe a simultaneous overhaul and squad upgrade could be achieved if Lampard and Thelwell are as good as advertised. I do not believe however, that the club is brave enough to try it.

 

[toffeeblue9]

Hate to be pedantic, actually no, I quite like it.

He was born in Hemel Hempstead

The poor sod

 

[kenada_blue]

We have allowed £160m worth of players to walk out the door for absolutely nothing in the last few years, players who have been not been part of our first team that have been getting paid huge salaries to either sit on the bench or play for other clubs. Stop comparing to us to other clubs, we are in a basket of our own for how monumentally bad we've cocked this up and we need to take a drastic course to correct it whilst simultaneously making sure we don't compromise ourselves on the pitch.

Footy manager delusion? Pardon me for being concerned that a business losing £100m every year whilst sinking 90% of its turnover into the back pockets of players that nearly relegate us should probably look to sell some players and deploy a more self-sustaining model moving forwards. How very awful of me.

This is correct. The issue has always been recruitment.

But the reason why I pull up the "resell" argument is because it's used every time as a negative to not sign someone above 25 unless they're a stellar player. We can't sign stellar players so the argument leads towards only signing players under 25. That's not sustainable to progress on the field, that's running a business where you see players as assets to sell because all you do then is take a step forward, and 2 back when you sell a talent. It's a production line then.

End of the day it's a mix based on a plan. We've not had a manager here long enough under Moshiri to enable a plan.

 

[wandyr79]

To be clear, I agree with your point entirely and you share many sentiments that I also have.

I absolutely have no problems with brining in 25-26 year olds of the right profile. Winks simply does not fit that profile for me, although I would accept him on a straight loan deal.

I realise I am probably in a minority here, but if there was a market in which it could happen I'd be selling Richarlison, Calvert-Lewin and Pickford this summer, and trying to cart out a lot more dross behind them. I spoke all season long about the fact that our team is just so poor and that I wanted to see it completely overhauled, so just because a select few players finally got their arses in gear towards the end of the season does not pull the wool over my eyes. We have an extremely bad team and I'd rather roll the dice on trying something new rather than watch the same disappointments deliver another wretched season.

I believe a simultaneous overhaul and squad upgrade could be achieved if Lampard and Thelwell are as good as advertised. I do not believe however, that the club is brave enough to try it.

Fair points, don't agree with all of it but one thing I think every Evertonian does agree on is that there needs to be a plan, whether we think it, as fans, it is the right course., initially.

On Winks, I see it as a beige signing, as you said, on loan there is not really a down side but I also think that less than £10m, it may be seen as a good bit of business (wages aside).

 

[toffee-L]

This is correct. The issue has always been recruitment.

But the reason why I pull up the "resell" argument is because it's used every time as a negative to not sign someone above 25 unless they're a stellar player. We can't sign stellar players so the argument leads towards only signing players under 25. That's not sustainable to progress on the field, that's running a business where you see players as assets to sell because all you do then is take a step forward, and 2 back when you sell a talent. It's a production line then.

End of the day it's a mix based on a plan. We've not had a manager here long enough under Moshiri to enable a plan.

That's fair enough, but I'd wager everything I own that in an alternate reality whereby we only recruited players 26 and under since Moshiri walked through the door we'd be significantly better off both on the pitch and on the balance sheet than we are now. It is possible to run a club on a sell-to-buy basis that also performs well on the pitch. Difficult, but possible.

A loan for Winks I could accept, even a £10m fee, 3-year deal wouldn't be the worst piece of business that we've ever done, but I think many fans are concerned at the prospect of the world's biggest mugs walking right up to a top 6 side and giving them £20m one of their reserves and then compounding our own stupidity by gift-wrapping the duffer player we've just bought a 5-year contract. Thankfully, it looks like from some of the reporting going on at the minute that it's either a loan or no-dice from our point of view, which is encouraging.

 

[banno]

This is correct. The issue has always been recruitment.

But the reason why I pull up the "resell" argument is because it's used every time as a negative to not sign someone above 25 unless they're a stellar player. We can't sign stellar players so the argument leads towards only signing players under 25. That's not sustainable to progress on the field, that's running a business where you see players as assets to sell because all you do then is take a step forward, and 2 back when you sell a talent. It's a production line then.

End of the day it's a mix based on a plan. We've not had a manager here long enough under Moshiri to enable a plan.

Good post

 

[MikeH72]

Which is still better than us at this moment

I mean, I know they’re better than us. We’re not average, we’re crap.