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Manchester United

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EverTheOptimist said:
He's no where near world class though my good friend, blinded by the euros when England played on the 18 yard line with 2 defensive midfielders in front of him who got nose bleeds if they crossed the halfway line, Keane would look good in that set up mate.

For £80 million you expect, pace, reading of the game, ball playing ability and an ability to not just be a low block defender which is the easiest system to be a CB in my good friend, high up the pitch being made to a be front foot high line defender he looks shockingly bad and exposed like he would in the modern day top teams play today, United is his ceiling, they have a manager who has not got a clue about modern trends, tactics or coaching in today's football.
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Where have I said he is world class? Please show me. You lot paid £30 odd mill 10 or so yrs ago for Andy Carroll, for that kind of money I would expect a lot more.
 

wandyr79 said:
He is a very good Premier League CB, has weaknesses but name me a player who doesn't have weaknesses and/or has games where they are dominated.

I have never got the 'he cost this amount of money so he must be at least this amount of quality or have these particular skills'. He did not command that fee just because of his talent, there are other factors as such as timing, time left on contract, English, club in the same league (A team is never going to let a big player go to a team in the same league for peanuts), selling team knowing that the buying team are desperate to buy that player or need a player in that area.
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United though isn't it, France have a batch of amazing CB's playing in Germany and Spain, they could have got peanuts, who are rapid quick, ball playing, aerially strong and comfortable in a high line, they are about 7-8 young french CB's in Europe they could have bought for 20% of the fee 2-3 years ago, but United always pay over the odds for players for a botched mixed system, they try to play a pressing game, but they cannot because they have Maguire who is only comfortable deep.

They have tried to remedy that signing Varane, but it's only solved half the problem, teams will just target Maguire in transition as Southampton and Young boys did constantly, AWB is just as bad a signing if you want to play a modern day game of a high line, he has no technical ability at all, his only strength is defending 1v1, going forward he is absolute shocking, bad first touch, his passing consists of 5 yards sideways and his crossing is amateur level, all the top teams have fullbacks who can attack both sides, AWB always plays deep because he cannot join attacks as they break down with him.

That is just a microcosm of United's mishmash recruitment.
 
wandyr79 said:
He is a very good Premier League CB, has weaknesses but name me a player who doesn't have weaknesses and/or has games where they are dominated.

I have never got the 'he cost this amount of money so he must be at least this amount of quality or have these particular skills'. He did not command that fee just because of his talent, there are other factors as such as timing, time left on contract, English, club in the same league (A team is never going to let a big player go to a team in the same league for peanuts), selling team knowing that the buying team are desperate to buy that player or need a player in that area.
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Good post mate. Thing is you cant discuss or have an opinion with a kopite.
 
EverTheOptimist said:
United though isn't it, France have a batch of amazing CB's playing in Germany and Spain, they could have got peanuts, who are rapid quick, ball playing, aerially strong and comfortable in a high line, they are about 7-8 young french CB's in Europe they could have bought for 20% of the fee 2-3 years ago, but United always pay over the odds for players for a botched mixed system, they try to play a pressing game, but they cannot because they have Maguire who is only comfortable deep.

They have tried to remedy that signing Varane, but it's only solved half the problem, teams will just target Maguire in transition as Southampton and Young boys did constantly, AWB is just as bad a signing if you want to play a modern day game of a high line, he has no technical ability at all, his only strength is defending 1v1, going forward he is absolute shocking, bad first touch, his passing consists of 5 yards sideways and his crossing is amateur level, all the top teams have fullbacks who can attack both sides, AWB always plays deep because he cannot join attacks as they break down with him.

That is just a microcosm of United's mishmash recruitment.
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The thing is that my post was about not obsessing with other influences. The tactics/system is another debate, I don't watch enough of their games to say exactly how good he is week in/week out against what system Utd are trying to play.

What I do see when I see him play for England and the odd time for Utd is a very good Premier League Centre back.

Oh I also forgot one aspect that can determine transfer fees, knowledge of the league they are transferring to. Maybe they thought the cost of getting somebody familiar with the league was worth it against what they would have saved for an unknown. Only the business/scouting/coaching people at Utd will know for certain if that was what they were looking at, but it is not that far fetched that they did that analysis.
 
anxiouswarrior said:
Indeed the game was ok for us for the 1st half hour then after the sending off we lost our balance and shape , OGS made some subs maybe some of them wrong choices i would have put greenwood on for sheer pace up front , in the end it was terrible mistake and sometimes that happens , it is 1 game so lets move on West Ham away Sunday on the tough one , as for the 30 year mob and the resident Ever optimist and his glee about Manchester United losing it only goes to show obsessed they still are with United
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I recently met a South London red (where most are to be honest) and he agreed with me about OGS not being very tactically aware. His plan B seems to be shutting his eyes and sticking a pin in his subs list.
 

TyphooToffee said:
I recently met a South London red (where most are to be honest) and he agreed with me about OGS not being very tactically aware. His plan B seems to be shutting his eyes and sticking a pin in his subs list.
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It was laughable how tactically inept Ole was last night.

The usual consensus and right way when going down to 10 men is always to have enough bodies in Midfield by going 441, that way your defence does not get overrun and you have some semblance of control with the ball when you get it which takes the pressure off your defence.

Ole's way last night was pack the defence with 5 across and have 3 midfielders, is it now wonder they conceded 16 shots after going down to 10 men, Pogba VDB and Fernandes were overrun at will, Young Boys went to 451 and flooded and pressed the United midfield and United's defence was under the cosh because the midfield could not keep hold of the ball.

Ole is a Football Genius. long may he rein at OT.
 

Alan Whittle said:
Yeah, of course. They got you Ronaldo and you all love it. Hate the Glazers, love their cash. Working on the next version of your Super League right now.
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Thats nothing to with United fans the Super League nonsense , as for the Glazers they have put no money into the club , they borrowed money from the banks and created an average 40 milion a year in interest onto the club , they are spivs and filth the majority of true United fans despise them
 

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