Current Affairs Coronavirus Thread - Serious stuff !!!

[tsubaki]

Raising NI to pay for COVID is an absolute disgrace. The young people in this country have sacrificed so much and they're going to feel the impact of these tax hikes the most.

Especially given that there are a group of people who really have profited from this crisis (and indeed if this is what they are doing, it’s to them where the money from NI rises to pay this debt off will end up). The extra costs of COVID should come from a mix of debt write-offs (agreed globally) and from the extremely wealthy, no one else.

The same applies to social care funding by the way - by all means gradually introduce a system whereby say everyone under 30 starts to pay extra NI for a new model of social care *for them*, but doing it for everyone is just going to further throw cash at a couple of age cohorts, many of whom probably qualify as extremely spoilt, and by the time the under 30s are that old the system will probably be broken anyway.

 

[Brennan]

Ultimately think this is very much part of 'learning to live with it'

I'm sure if they did daily death counts which were made so public so readily for other incidents/illnesses, it'd be pretty frightening too.

Not trying to take away from the seriousness of COVID. People just have to get vaccinated and be sensible.

Getting vaccinated and being sensible isn't a solution, and neither is 'learning to live with it'. That's just a catchphrase.

5% of all hospital beds in the UK currently hold COVID patients. It's only going to get worse from here.

 

[Brennan]

Especially given that there are a group of people who really have profited from this crisis (and indeed if this is what they are doing, it’s to them where the money from NI rises to pay this debt off will end up). The extra costs of COVID should come from a mix of debt write-offs (agreed globally) and from the extremely wealthy, no one else.

The same applies to social care funding by the way - by all means gradually introduce a system whereby say everyone under 30 starts to pay extra NI for a new model of social care *for them*, but doing it for everyone is just going to further throw cash at a couple of age cohorts, many of whom probably qualify as extremely spoilt, and by the time the under 30s are that old the system will probably be broken anyway.

Surely that would just lead to mega inflation, as you're essentially printing money to the tune of trillions ?

 

[grandjoeblue]

Getting vaccinated and being sensible isn't a solution, and neither is 'learning to live with it'. That's just a catchphrase.

5% of all hospital beds in the UK currently hold COVID patients. It's only going to get worse from here.

Its the only viable solution in the long term unfortunately.

5% of beds is acceptable but it needs to stay around those levels which can be achieved by increasing vaccination and giving third doses to the vulnerable before November.

 

[Brennan]

Its the only viable solution in the long term unfortunately.

5% of beds is acceptable but it needs to stay around those levels which can be achieved by increasing vaccination and giving third doses to the vulnerable before November.

Says who ? The Tories ?

I find it amazing that people are willing to accept the deaths of hundreds of people every day rather than even consider any alternative, because it might be more difficult.

 

[roydo]

even consider any alternative, because it might be more difficult.

Like what?

 

[Brennan]

Like what?

Like loads of things ? We had dozens of restrictions until a few months ago. Mask mandates would be a start to stop people spreading it because they can't be arsed wearing a mask in Tesco.

The alternative is we carry on down this road and end up with people dying from cancer because they can't get treatment due to the NHS being overwhelmed. If that is 'learning to live with it' i'll pass thanks.

 

[roydo]

Like loads of things ? We had dozens of restrictions until a few months ago. Mask mandates would be a start to stop people spreading it because they can't be arsed wearing a mask in Tesco.

The alternative is we carry on down this road and end up with people dying from cancer because they can't get treatment due to the NHS being overwhelmed. If that is 'learning to live with it' i'll pass thanks.

Not sure what you are advocating. "Mask mandates would be a start" is "living with it" isnt it?

Unless you want full lock down again.

 

[grandjoeblue]

Like loads of things ? We had dozens of restrictions until a few months ago. Mask mandates would be a start to stop people spreading it because they can't be arsed wearing a mask in Tesco.

The alternative is we carry on down this road and end up with people dying from cancer because they can't get treatment due to the NHS being overwhelmed. If that is 'learning to live with it' i'll pass thanks.

The NHS on the whole is not being overwhelmed though. Obviously there will be problems in the winter again. Everyone is aware of that.

In my opinion the only measures that realistically could be brought back are masks in supermarkets and transport. Shutting down again would be a poor decision when such a large percentage of society are protected by the vaccines.

I

 

[Brennan]

Not sure what you are advocating. "Mask mandates would be a start" is "living with it" isnt it?

Unless you want full lock down again.

We haven't had 'full lockdown' since the winter, but cases and deaths have only really started to increase noticeably in the past two months.

From July 2nd to September 2nd we went from 17 deaths per day to 111, and that is despite a huge increase in the number of people who have been vaccinated. Between April and July the number of deaths was extremely steady at sub 20 per day, despite us unlocking various parts of the economy in that time.

There's no call from me for a 'full lockdown', clearly certain social restrictions have a significant impact otherwise we wouldn't see the above.

Once we had 'freedom day' we have seen a clear day by day increase in the number of deaths, despite a huge increase in the amount of people vaccinated. This flies in the face of the suggestion that we can just vaccinate our way out of the problem.

 

[ToffeeTim]

Getting vaccinated and being sensible isn't a solution, and neither is 'learning to live with it'. That's just a catchphrase.

5% of all hospital beds in the UK currently hold COVID patients. It's only going to get worse from here.

Unless you believe there is a short term method to fully eliminate the virus, then getting a jab, being sensible, and getting on with our lives is the only option.

I don't believe there is any way to completely get rid of covid, so I don't know what we can do in the long term

 

[mill]

We haven't had 'full lockdown' since the winter, but cases and deaths have only really started to increase noticeably in the past two months.

From July 2nd to September 2nd we went from 17 deaths per day to 111, and that is despite a huge increase in the number of people who have been vaccinated. Between April and July the number of deaths was extremely steady at sub 20 per day, despite us unlocking various parts of the economy in that time.

There's no call from me for a 'full lockdown', clearly certain social restrictions have a significant impact otherwise we wouldn't see the above.

Once we had 'freedom day' we have seen a clear day by day increase in the number of deaths, despite a huge increase in the amount of people vaccinated. This flies in the face of the suggestion that we can just vaccinate our way out of the problem.

I’m in no way advocating full lockdown but I think there is a bit of complacency here in that this is just how numbers work.

If the base is low, then the absolute growth will be low. But if the growth rate is sufficient then at some inflection point the absolute growth numbers will look scary.

The way I look at it is you have to get the growth rate (some people will use R0) as low as possible. It’s why I’m an advocate for more of the population being vaccinated. Because that will lower the growth rate.

If not then we need things like mask mandates etc. I don’t think lockdown will happen as long as the booster program works effectively. But the growth rate is going to be affected by things like back to school and ‘freedom day’. Now the base level was small a few months back but as the base ticks up and the back to school aspect of things starts to make an impact, it’s going to be a tailwind for growth. I think with each cycle we’ve seen there has been a bit of complacency around numbers when the base is low (this isn’t aimed at you by the way, just something I’ve noted).

 

[Brennan]

Unless you believe there is a short term method to fully eliminate the virus, then getting a jab, being sensible, and getting on with our lives is the only option.

I don't believe there is any way to completely get rid of covid, so I don't know what we can do in the long term

You're presenting a false dilemma, either we do as we are doing now with practically zero restrictions on anything, or we eliminate the virus. That's not real.

 

[ToffeeTim]

Raising NI to pay for COVID is an absolute disgrace. The young people in this country have sacrificed so much and they're going to feel the impact of these tax hikes the most.

Income tax would have been fairer. You get a higher tax free allowance for income tax and people of all ages can be liable to it.

The other option is some form of voluntary contribution scheme were people pay in to fund their care in future. The current welfare system wasn't designed for the current life expectancy. So we definitely need to adapt, the problem is the answer isn't obvious at all. The balance has to be struck between the younger and older generations.

 

[grandjoeblue]

Unless you believe there is a short term method to fully eliminate the virus, then getting a jab, being sensible, and getting on with our lives is the only option.

I don't believe there is any way to completely get rid of covid, so I don't know what we can do in the long term

They need to build more hospital capacity in the UK over the next 10 years.

Medicine to treat covid patient outcomes seems to be improving and hopefully will continue over the next couple of years.

You'd hope that vaccinations mixed with post virus immunity will eventually protect people to a good standard.

Its tough but the virus is going nowhere, places like Thailand who did alright are now suffering.