Transfer Rumour Joshua Zirkzee

[catcherintherye]

Mate, DCL scored 10 goals in 2 years in about 60 matches. If you think that the team was saying "oh, that's fine, he'll score AAAANNY day now" that's absurd. You don't spend 30m on a striker if you have total confidence that DCL is going to turn it around.

You're partially right in that when we bought Tosun it was to replace Dom.

However when Brands arrived he took a different tact. He openly said, the front 3 will be Lookman, Richarlinson and Calvert Lewin- to much chagrin it has to be said. He saw the raw potential in each, including Dom, and that with good coaching and exposure he would develop.

The following January he refused to sign a striker to give him time. The following summer he also used his veto to stop us getting an older striker- all to allow Calvert Lewin to develop.

I think they saw quite quickly Tosun wasn't the man. I mean ironically, Carlo probably rates Tosun higher now than others have done.

 

[catcherintherye]

If that's the case I don't see why they're haggling over the price because Eu10m seems very reasonable.

Personally I think they've had a few issues with Kean as regards attitude and none football matters. This lad also comes with a bit of a reputation and maybe they want to take a closer look see before they commit. Couldn't blame them of that were the case.

I think as a point of principle Brands ha a price and wants to stick to it. There are also a few unknowns. What happens with Kean, what happens with Richarlinson, whether Simms surprises anyone at Blackpool etc.

A loan option with a potential fee at the end seems reasonable. I can understand the club at this point being a bit cautious about a committing to a fee at this point.

 

[Lanolin]

If that's the case I don't see why they're haggling over the price because Eu10m seems very reasonable.

Personally I think they've had a few issues with Kean as regards attitude and none football matters. This lad also comes with a bit of a reputation and maybe they want to take a closer look see before they commit. Couldn't blame them of that were the case.

Maybe, i'm obviously only guessing. I did explain why they would be haggling over the price though. It can be reasonable as you like, but if we haven't got it we haven't got it. It's fairly common for deals to be done that way now, particularly because of ffp.

 

[blulouie]

Yes I agree with your latter point. What you really see is a reflection of where both teams were at really. Everton you get more exposure, but Liverpool you probably kick on more. Of the last 20 years, in terms of quality, it probably goes 1- Rooney, 2 Gerrard, 3 Arnold 4- Barkley.

However what is undoubtable, is in terms of local players being ready to have meaningful involvement, we have been streets ahead of them over the last 20+ years.

They close the gap in terms of buying players in- though to be fair we have also had some success in that regard. What's frustrating though, is people will count say Sterling as a vindication of Liverpools academy but not say Stones here.

I looked a week or 2 ago of the English divisions , its absolutely littered with lads that have come through both accademy's Akpan , Agard , Ibe , Wilson and many many more.
Both churning out a lot of players whether its here local or at other clubs the outcome is the same but they get big bucks for their cast offs.

Anyway back on topic ,are we signing the next Ruud Gullitt.

Looks a goer to me.

 

[jazzy]

Fella hasnt worked since he crapped the bed here.

He hasn't had to work since his initial contract here and pay off from Everton.

 

[Barnfred 55]

I think as a point of principle Brands ha a price and wants to stick to it. There are also a few unknowns. What happens with Kean, what happens with Richarlinson, whether Simms surprises anyone at Blackpool etc.

A loan option with a potential fee at the end seems reasonable. I can understand the club at this point being a bit cautious about a committing to a fee at this point.

Which is exactly what I said in my original post.

 

[LocalNative]

The stuff of legends this. Will never forget it, left with absolutely nothing but a tan too.

 

[Barnfred 55]

Maybe, i'm obviously only guessing. I did explain why they would be haggling over the price though. It can be reasonable as you like, but if we haven't got it we haven't got it. It's fairly common for deals to be done that way now, particularly because of ffp.

I thought your post was commenting on the timing of paying the fee, rather than amount of the fee itself.

And yeah, I understand that a lot of clubs conduct transfers this way these days to balance the books. I'm just of the opinion that the price itself seems fair for a teenage striker who not long ago was playing first team football for a club like Bayern Munich. It's just an opinion like

 

[Philw]

1. "Zirkzee shouldn't sign for Everton, we can't develop players - look at Moise Kean"
2. "But what about Calvert-Lewin?"
1. "All luck that lad, we didn't have anyone else"

• Luck;
  success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions.

The actions from Brands were very clear;

December 2018



These comments were repeated - consistently over a prolonged period.

Everton's Director of Football, directed there to be no big players coming in who'd limit Calvert-Lewin's chances;

August 2019;



To then say Everton only developed Calvert-Lewin because there was nobody else, and attribute it to luck is a nonsense and... dim.

Luck would be 2 first team strikers getting injured with the window closed and him being given an opportunity by chance, rather than action.

Calvert-Lewin had ability. Needed time to develop.
Brands saw it. Ensured he had that time and opportunity to do just that.

Everton, and Brands deserve enormous credit for developing Calvert-Lewin.

It's really not very difficult to understand.

Indeed, yet you still seem to be struggling with that, and even reading.... If you're going to respond to posts, you should probably read them properly first. Please feel free to do so before bothering to respond to this.

But ancelotti has now been here a year and the academy, under 23’s should play like the first team.

What’s the guy who we hired from Derby doing? Does anyone know.

I think it will be telling if Brands leaves, he was supposed to be here for the long haul and got a.seat on the board. I think it will tell us who’s still having a big influence in making the decisions

Yeah, it's all a bit of a mystery, and far from what I think most people expected/felt we were promised when he arrived.

Yes you do.

When hes your only Striker.

Everybody was complaining that we didn't replace Lukaku, Brands had faith in DCL.

At the point we signed Tosun he was our only Striker, so we signed another option, he flopped, so we did it again with Kean, who sat on the bench all season cos DCL blew up.

Now we at the same crossroads, DCL is our only Striker and possibly 1 of the best in the league.................

Marcel Brands has done it again.

For me he'd be the perfect number two to DCL. Young, talented, potential, physical, low risk.

It may not work out - see Moise Kean for details - but we'll make that money back on him regardless - again, see Moise Kean for details.

If we didn't have DCL, we'd need to be looking at spending £30m+ for something more proven. But fortunately DCL is now proven to be a top striker, so the urgency in that position isn't as dramatic.

For me, we need this sort of solution up front, but much more urgent is the gaping hole that is right back, and arguably another option out wide if Bernard is being shipped out. The team chronically lacks pace.

DCL's been good this season, very good at the start, but can we stop pretending like he's the finished article please. He's still got plenty to learn, and is not one of the best forwards in the prem.

 

[Lanolin]

I thought your post was commenting on the timing of paying the fee, rather than amount of the fee itself.

And yeah, I understand that a lot of clubs conduct transfers this way these days to balance the books. I'm just of the opinion that the price itself seems fair for a teenage striker who not long ago was playing first team football for a club like Bayern Munich. It's just an opinion like

As far as I can see the report you were quoting didn't mention it being a compulsory purchase so I thought we were just talking generally about that possibility. I wasn't disagreeing with you, just saying why they may not be bothered about the purchase being compulsory if that turned out to be the case. Surely though, if the price is fair then the price is fair? I mean, why would be concerned about committing to signing him if the price is a fair one? It would only be an issue if the price was more than we thought he was actually worth I would have thought.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Indeed, yet you still seem to be struggling with that, and even reading.... If you're going to respond to posts, you should probably read them properly first. Please feel free to do so before bothering to respond to this.

Yeah, it's all a bit of a mystery, and far from what I think most people expected/felt we were promised when he arrived.



DCL's been good this season, very good at the start, but can we stop pretending like he's the finished article please. He's still got plenty to learn, and is not one of the best forwards in the prem.

I suggest you look up what the word lucky means mate.

If you think Everton's development of Calvert-Lewin is just down to luck, then you either haven't been paying attention or you don't know what the word luck means.

 

[barneygumble]

I still think we are getting a poor return on academy prospects
Look at United ,look at the scum ,all doing better academy wise

Are Liverpool doing better than us?

If you take away Alexander Arnold, what have they produced in the last 12-15 years?
Maybe Jones, any of the other Youngsters won’t make it for them.

In a day an age where you get so much money, and have more wealth than 90% of the other teams, £5-10m isn’t much of a gamble to let someone else do the developing.

 

[tim cahill]

DCL's been good this season, very good at the start, but can we stop pretending like he's the finished article please. He's still got plenty to learn, and is not one of the best forwards in the prem.

He may have more to learn but he is still absolutely one of the best CFs in the league. Aside from Kane who would you say is better?

 

[Eggs]

But have you seen the under 23’s play. Even when we won the league the football was shocking.
unsworth is so defensively minded and negative it’s embarrassing. I think the reason we won them titles was because we had good players, with a number of them now in the championship and a couple on the prem.

Now we have average players, we are getting average results. Unsworth sets up half the time with 6/7 defenders on the pitch. And starts taking a forward off for a defender with 30mins to go, if we’re ever in front.

it’s long ball kick and rush football, David moyes style, playing as many older players as possible. It should all be about development, let the kids go out and play, be brave take risks, that’s what it should be all about

It also seems to me that unsworth has a lot of friends in the boardroom. IE bill “jobs for boys” kenwright and DBB. I’m gobsmacked he’s still in the job and Brands hasn’t took control.

The rumours of Brands signing his new deal at the AGM didn’t happen and his speech could’ve been interpreted as a good bye speech. Maybe he’s frustrated at the way the academy is being run.

The best thing the club can do is all the best kids, just bypass the 23’s and go straight up to the first team.

By all accounts, Unsworth even though he’s been promoted, he will still run the under 23’s
Unbelievable

...I’m playing Devils Advocate to a certain extent, but it might be to Unsworth’s coaching credit that he managed to win that league against clubs with much richer recruitment policy. I remember Craig Short saying Everton provide the sternest test in PL2 because they play like a PL team.

I’m not defending the club, but that team played as a team which is some achievement for a group of lads competing for limited contracts.

it’s easy to criticise the coaches. Our continued failure to reach the latter stages of the FA Youth Cup is a bigger benchmark for me that we don’t have the quality of youngsters. It could be more of a recruitment issue than a coaching issue. Hopefully it’s cyclical and we’re due a good intake.

 

[Zatara]

So we spent 30m, our 3rd(?) highest ever transfer fee, on a backup striker? Come on.

And I'm not saying faith has not been paid back in full, just saying that you don't spend 27.5(correct amount) if you have full faith the striker, who had done very little scoring in the 2 previous years, would magically start scoring.

Who did we buy for 30m?

Tosun was 27m and Kean was 24m.

Do you agree that we currently lack a Striker?

I think the fee for Tosun was wrong at the time it was announced in the media. From what i remember, it was something like €22mil which was about £18mil...there were a few posts about it.

Kean was £22mil rising to £27mil.

If that's the case I don't see why they're haggling over the price because Eu10m seems very reasonable.

Personally I think they've had a few issues with Kean as regards attitude and none football matters. This lad also comes with a bit of a reputation and maybe they want to take a closer look see before they commit. Couldn't blame them of that were the case.

Meant to be €3mil loan fee then €10mil obligation to buy so €13mil.

That starts getting into the 'risky' bracket doesnt it...

If it was an option to buy Id be all for it but that fee seems quite high. Even though hes been highly rated for years and initially looked ace for Bayern, it seems like hes not broken through fully this season.

Theres a lot of youth players who score bundles of goals (Simms) and then slot a few in a top side (Macheda at United) then just keep dropping down the leagues.

I think the fee is quite high myself. His profile though seems to be ideal.

I looked a week or 2 ago of the English divisions , its absolutely littered with lads that have come through both accademy's Akpan , Agard , Ibe , Wilson and many many more.
Both churning out a lot of players whether its here local or at other clubs the outcome is the same but they get big bucks for their cast offs.

Anyway back on topic ,are we signing the next Ruud Gullitt.

Looks a goer to me.

Seems to be considered similar to Hooijdonk