Transfer Rumour Joshua Zirkzee

[catcherintherye]

View attachment 114746
Its a lot more than 3.
Quite a few in there mate.

Steve Highway for them said 100 starts for Liverpool was "making it". I have used similar with us, or someone sold for substantial revenue. Even if you reduced it to above 50 starts it's virtulaly nobody pre Arnold. A couple at the turn of the century, but even they didn't play much.

 

[catcherintherye]

If i said he was awful, i didnt quite mean it that harshly, ive supported him all through, im not digging the lad, i feel im not putting my point across very well

You probably didn't say he was awful to be fair.

I agree with much of what you say. I think he was better than you felt he was before that, but I agree he has been quite fortunate to get the run he did. Lets put it this way, I'm not sure 19 year old DCL gets the games now he did then. Sliding doors moments and all that.

Had we not made a mess of summer 17, and got a Lukaku replacement sorted, he also probably doesn't either. Life is about good fortune too though.

 

[AussieToffee11]

Sportbild reporting that both sides trying to make this happen. They are quite reputable from memory?

Club 'willing to talk' to Everton about player with Blues 'trying' to secure deal by end of month - Sport Witness

Bayern Munich are willing to discuss a deal for Joshua Zirkzee, with Everton trying to sign the young striker. That’s according to SportBILD, who say the German champions are open to a move despite the club not planning any departures this month. Zirkzee has been linked with a move to Everton...

sportwitness.co.uk

 

[Philw]

I still think we are getting a poor return on academy prospects
Look at United ,look at the scum ,all doing better academy wise

United fair enough, they seem to bring through a quality player fairly regularly, but aside from the current crop Liverpool haven't really brought through anyone of note since Gerrard and Carragher have they? Even the likes of Sterling and Harvey Elliot they brought in at 16 (QPR and Fulham respectively).

A big part of that is mentality. They might not necessarily be better players technically a lot of the time, but belief and approach can make the the difference. Combined with the overall quality of team mates it can be the difference between a player making it or not.

Hopefully, with the players we are bringing in and the confidence Ancelotti seems to bring to players, together with a generally more positive outlook at the club, we should hopefully see an improvement in this area sooner or later.

This. So much of the game is mental. I really hoped Dowell would make it here, and him and Maddison were at a similar level I believe 4/5 years ago. Look at them now.

But have you seen the under 23’s play. Even when we won the league the football was shocking.
unsworth is so defensively minded and negative it’s embarrassing. I think the reason we won them titles was because we had good players, with a number of them now in the championship and a couple on the prem.

Now we have average players, we are getting average results. Unsworth sets up half the time with 6/7 defenders on the pitch. And starts taking a forward off for a defender with 30mins to go, if we’re ever in front.

it’s long ball kick and rush football, David moyes style, playing as many older players as possible. It should all be about development, let the kids go out and play, be brave take risks, that’s what it should be all about

It also seems to me that unsworth has a lot of friends in the boardroom. IE bill “jobs for boys” kenwright and DBB. I’m gobsmacked he’s still in the job and Brands hasn’t took control.

The rumours of Brands signing his new deal at the AGM didn’t happen and his speech could’ve been interpreted as a good bye speech. Maybe he’s frustrated at the way the academy is being run.

The best thing the club can do is all the best kids, just bypass the 23’s and go straight up to the first team.

By all accounts, Unsworth even though he’s been promoted, he will still run the under 23’s
Unbelievable

Thing is, we know so little about what goes on at FInch Farm, and like you say, Unsworth has been this way since the two title seasons. If he hasn't changed then there must be a reason why. There are people above him, they seem to be happy with how he is working, so you can't really blame him if he people he answers to are seemingly happy for him to continue as he is.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

DCL certainly has been lucky. Brands et al may have had faith in him, but that doesn't mean he wasn't lucky. Lucky that when we had the money we spent it on Tosun, and not someone who was good enough to lead the line for us. Lucky that Brands believed in him. Lucky that Brands convinced/overruled Silva when he wanted to bring in another striker. Certain members of the club may have had their part in him continuing to get those chances, but he was still lucky to be in the position to get them. And certainly he got most of his game time because the only alternative was Tosun.

And for every DCL, not only is there a Kean and Vlasic, but a Lookman, a Gordon, a Kenny.

A Director of Football directing footballing strategy isn't luck.

Again - Brands didn't bring in another player because he is on very public record as saying he wants Calvert-Lewin to play.

He then played.

That. Isn't. Luck.

Calvert-Lewin had ability, his Director of Football saw it. He ensured this didn't happen;

But DCL got lucky that he could play games as we had nobody else worth a place, that isn't the case here, he has to sit on the bench until DCL gets injured or completely loses form. The chances DC L got don't usually pan out, the we want success now brigade don't allow for young players to develop and so it makes no sense as we won't play him exactly the same as Kean.

Not. Luck.

Honestly - the tendency from some to blame Brands for everything that goes wrong, but whenever he gets something right it's "luck"

 

[Philw]

A Director of Football directing footballing strategy isn't luck.

Again - Brands didn't bring in another player because he is on very public record as saying he wants Calvert-Lewin to play.

He then played.

That. Isn't. Luck.

Calvert-Lewin had ability, his Director of Football saw it. He ensured this didn't happen;



Not. Luck.

Honestly - the tendency from some to blame Brands for everything that goes wrong, but whenever he gets something right it's "luck"

You're either not reading what you're replying to, being purposefully obtuse, or just a bit dim! I'll assume the former

We're not saying Brands is lucky, or blaming him for anything. We are saying that DCL was lucky that he was in the position he was, and that people like Brands had faith in him when many others (inc his manager apparently) didn't. It's really not very difficult to understand.

Luck. L. u. c. k.

See, I can put capitals after every word/letter too

 

[blulouie]

Steve Highway for them said 100 starts for Liverpool was "making it". I have used similar with us, or someone sold for substantial revenue. Even if you reduced it to above 50 starts it's virtulaly nobody pre Arnold. A couple at the turn of the century, but even they didn't play much.

Still on the list mate , all come through their academy to make 1st team debuts.
Looking at lists from both clubs they pretty much stack up equal .
Some go on to play more than others even at other clubs and make a lot of appearances.
Difference is they command whopping fees for theirs .
Of your 12 for us and quoting Steve Heighway , not many of our 12 had made 100 apps for us.
As accademy's go i think there's not a lot of difference between them other than as I say they get Premium money for theirs.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

You're either not reading what you're replying to, being purposefully obtuse, or just a bit dim! I'll assume the former

We're not saying Brands is lucky, or blaming him for anything. We are saying that DCL was lucky that he was in the position he was, and that people like Brands had faith in him when many others (inc his manager apparently) didn't. It's really not very difficult to understand.

1. "Zirkzee shouldn't sign for Everton, we can't develop players - look at Moise Kean"
2. "But what about Calvert-Lewin?"
1. "All luck that lad, we didn't have anyone else"

• Luck;
  success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions.

The actions from Brands were very clear;

December 2018

Marcel Brands: “I think we are a very, very lucky club in England that we have three players with great potential who are just 21-years-old – we have Dominic, we have Richarlison and we have Ademola.

“And if I bring in a new player, a huge striker or a name, should I destroy one of them?

“It is also my goal to protect those boys. Everyone agrees with me that they have great potential and a great future.

"Dominic has shown already that he can score in the Premier League and I don't want to destroy those big talents.

“Ok, they need some time and we have to give them time and confidence for the future to show that potential and, for me, it will hurt me if we destroyed those talents because everyone is jealous of those type of talents.”

These comments were repeated - consistently over a prolonged period.

Everton's Director of Football, directed there to be no big players coming in who'd limit Calvert-Lewin's chances;

August 2019;

Calvert Lewin: “It's massive belief the club have put in me and it (Brands' comment) was a massive confidence boost and he way I take that is that I want to prove them right and repay them with good performances and goals,” he said.

“That's another reason why I work hard everyday because it's a massive amount of trust they have put in me and I want to repay that.”

To then say Everton only developed Calvert-Lewin because there was nobody else, and attribute it to luck is a nonsense and... dim.

Luck would be 2 first team strikers getting injured with the window closed and him being given an opportunity by chance, rather than action.

Calvert-Lewin had ability. Needed time to develop.
Brands saw it. Ensured he had that time and opportunity to do just that.

Everton, and Brands deserve enormous credit for developing Calvert-Lewin.

It's really not very difficult to understand.

 

[steven]

1. "Zirkzee shouldn't sign for Everton, we can't develop players - look at Moise Kean"
2. "But what about Calvert-Lewin?"
1. "All luck that lad, we didn't have anyone else"

• Luck;
  success or failure apparently brought by chance rather than through one's own actions.

The actions from Brands were very clear;

December 2018



These comments were repeated - consistently over a prolonged period.

Everton's Director of Football, directed there to be no big players coming in who'd limit Calvert-Lewin's chances;

August 2019;



To then say Everton only developed Calvert-Lewin because there was nobody else, and attribute it to luck is a nonsense and... dim.

Luck would be 2 first team strikers getting injured with the window closed and him being given an opportunity by chance, rather than action.

Calvert-Lewin had ability. Needed time to develop.
Brands saw it. Ensured he had that time and opportunity to do just that.

Everton, and Brands deserve enormous credit for developing Calvert-Lewin.

It's really not very difficult to understand.

Still gutted lookman left...you see more and more glimpses of the player he will be in a year or two.....he has big quality.

Brands comments are spot on here and DCL took full advantage of the opportunity.

 

[GrandOldTeam]

Still gutted lookman left...you see more and more glimpses of the player he will be in a year or two.....he has big quality.

Brands comments are spot on here and DCL took full advantage of the opportunity.

I think Brands/Everton wanted to keep him but his application to the game didn't fit - ability vs mentality.

 

[Bedfordblue]

You're either not reading what you're replying to, being purposefully obtuse, or just a bit dim! I'll assume the former

We're not saying Brands is lucky, or blaming him for anything. We are saying that DCL was lucky that he was in the position he was, and that people like Brands had faith in him when many others (inc his manager apparently) didn't. It's really not very difficult to understand.

Luck. L. u. c. k.

See, I can put capitals after every word/letter too

Am I the only one thinking they’re full stops not capitals?
Sorry couldn’t help myself.

 

[Brisan123]

I think Brands/Everton wanted to keep him but his application to the game didn't fit - ability vs mentality.

i think he will always be a London boy and only play for London teams
Bit like Zaha ,tried living outside London and did not like it

 

[Barnfred 55]

Sportbild reporting that both sides trying to make this happen. They are quite reputable from memory?

Club 'willing to talk' to Everton about player with Blues 'trying' to secure deal by end of month - Sport Witness

Bayern Munich are willing to discuss a deal for Joshua Zirkzee, with Everton trying to sign the young striker. That’s according to SportBILD, who say the German champions are open to a move despite the club not planning any departures this month. Zirkzee has been linked with a move to Everton...

sportwitness.co.uk

My issue with this is the compulsory option which comes with the loan. I don't mind there being an option to buy but we must be able to have some control over whether we exercise that option or not. The player could be a complete flop or a total bad'un. Maybe if it were linked to minutes played similar to the deal we had with Watford over Cleverley. On the positive side the price doesn't seem extortionate for a promising teenager.

 

[Stephenlloyd]

United fair enough, they seem to bring through a quality player fairly regularly, but aside from the current crop Liverpool haven't really brought through anyone of note since Gerrard and Carragher have they? Even the likes of Sterling and Harvey Elliot they brought in at 16 (QPR and Fulham respectively).


This. So much of the game is mental. I really hoped Dowell would make it here, and him and Maddison were at a similar level I believe 4/5 years ago. Look at them now.

Thing is, we know so little about what goes on at FInch Farm, and like you say, Unsworth has been this way since the two title seasons. If he hasn't changed then there must be a reason why. There are people above him, they seem to be happy with how he is working, so you can't really blame him if he people he answers to are seemingly happy for him to continue as he is.

But ancelotti has now been here a year and the academy, under 23’s should play like the first team.

What’s the guy who we hired from Derby doing? Does anyone know.

I think it will be telling if Brands leaves, he was supposed to be here for the long haul and got a.seat on the board. I think it will tell us who’s still having a big influence in making the decisions

 

[catcherintherye]

Still on the list mate , all come through their academy to make 1st team debuts.
Looking at lists from both clubs they pretty much stack up equal .
Some go on to play more than others even at other clubs and make a lot of appearances.
Difference is they command whopping fees for theirs .
Of your 12 for us and quoting Steve Heighway , not many of our 12 had made 100 apps for us.
As accademy's go i think there's not a lot of difference between them other than as I say they get Premium money for theirs.

Well if we include anyone who has played even a game, our list is also going to be massive. Thats the point of filtering it down.

Of the respective lists, lets stick to lads who have played 51+ league starts. That's a meaningful number to show they have made more than a handful of appearances.

We have, Tom Davies (114), Barkley 150, Rodwell 85 (plus sold for 15m, when that was probabaly worth 25 ish now), Anichebe 131, Osman 352, Hibbert 265, Ball 121, Dunne 60 (plus a hefty fee), Cadamateri 93, Jeffers 67 (plus a huge fee back then), Rooney 98, Gordon 14 and counting.

I have ommitted some like Vaughan, despite him having 47 games (which is more than almost anyone on that list) as for me he doesn't count.

Thats nobody from Arnold to Gerrard for them as a comparison.

If we are to count anyone who has played just a handful of games for us I could goon, Eaton, Jevons, Beck, Farley, Milligan, Mcleod, Clarke, Hughes, Bidwell, Ledson, Walsh, Kenny, Connolly, Dowell, Jones etc etc. The reality is, in terms of meaningful players, there was a huge gap for them that lasted about 20 years.