Young EFC Players Out on Loan 2019-20

[Lelouch]

T

From Wigan twitter

Wigan Athletic (@LaticsOfficial) Tweeted:


@kierandowell1

#wafc https://t.co/mVRixerZfD

That third one is cracking to be fair, I think he's more suited to more slow tempo leagues where you'll get that 1-3 extra seconds on the ball because he really does have a good left foot.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Yeah I agree. My post was more having a go at the lad who said we should have made a decision to keep or sell 3 years ago when he was just 19, and it isn't always that easy. The kid had just come back off a very successful world cup, so I think selling him would have been considered premature at the time.

I actually thought his first loan at Forest was a success. Up until Christmas he was arguably one of the stars of the championship, and at least we could identify a reason for his change in fortune there with a new manager and more defensive system. He was also away from the club when Allardyce was here, which I think was a bonus. Silva came in and we kept hold of him, which again I thought was the right decision by the club. But Silva never gave him an opportunity apart from playing with other fringe players in a couple of league cup games. As you say, he never got a prolonged run alongside senior first team players, and I think that's where the club failed him to an extent.

You look at Gordon now, just a year younger than when we had Dowell in the squad, and he's been given numerous chances. But in his first couple of outings he didn't impress at all, but Carlo persevered with him and he's been a bit of a bright spark. Had Silva used Dowell in the same way you may have seen the same outcome. Who knows. I actually think he couldn't have performed any worse than Davies, Gomes and Sigurdsson had he been at the club since the restart.

But like most people I do believe it's too late for the lad with us now. His game would probably suit somewhere like Italy better and if I were his agent I'd be looking to get him a move abroad, either there or somewhere like Holland. I think he'd do well too.

It's frustrating, as Lewis Gibson was in the same U17 World Cup winning side as Sancho and Foden, yet hasn't been anywhere near our first team despite our defenders generally being a bit crap. Instead, the benchwarming slot has gone to a kid signed from Carlisle instead. We had five members of the U20 World Cup winning squad. Lookman has already gone. Connolly and Dowell seem very unlikely to make it through, and who knows what will happen to Kenny. To have just one of those five a regular in the first team squad is not a great showing.

 

[Kever10]

I don't see how it's too late at all. Think people are being a bit unfair in regards to his supposed chances he's had and a bit unrealistic in terms of what we are going to do in the summer. We are not going to sell 15 fringe players and sign 6 or 7 World class midfield players that totally transform our squad. That is a pipe dream.

As regards his chances, I really don't think 2 League Cup games with rotated sides counts as chances, not when you consider the sheer volume of games people have played and failed in over the same time frame.

As for his loans, he went to Forrest and did well prior to the manager being replaced for a defensive manager who refused to use him in the same way. Some will point to this as a stick to beat him with "Not enough effort" etc, but that's not always the case. Barkleys 1st loan to Leeds wasn't a good 1 either. The loans are a way of exposing them to different pressures and experiences, not to say if they don't turn into Messi at League 1 or Championship levels that they are done at 19.

He scored 10 goals from midfield in his 1st season in the championship btw, not to be sniffed at.

After Forrest, he then had another relatively successful loan to Sheffield United. That's not to say he was a star player or anything outrageous, but he contributed, he played for the team, in several unfamiliar positions, and scored 2 goals, at least 1 of which was an important match winning headed goal, on the way to seeing them promoted automatically from an unlikely position after a fine end of season run of form. The manager, players and fans all loved him, so I don't see this as being the failure that others seem to. He was a 20 year old lad joining a hard working promotion chasing side in the championship, a tough league, on loan. We have signed players on loan who have had little or no effect, some haven't even played, It's not an easy task to be that guy coming in to an established set up.

The Derby loan, to my mind, is the only 1 I would say was a failure. But as we have seen, sometimes you fit, sometimes you don't. This goes for some of the best players in Europe, who have struggled at 1 side only to flourish at another. But some are confident enough to say that it proves, at 21, that your career path is now written for you? Try telling Jamie Vardy that.

The important thing for me, is he picked himself up, dusted himself off, and went back out on loan again, to a struggling side in danger of relegation, and has obviously had a positive impact, as the side have climbed away from danger, with a decent run of form. Yesterday's result is the pinnacle so far. With 2 games left, they are still in with a great chance of surviving even after a 12 point deduction. If they manage that, it will be some achievement.

He has had 4 loans now, all in the championship, and 3 of them have been or are currently considered something of a success. The lad is still only 22 and only has 3 starts at Everton. 1 was a solid performance, a 4-0 vs Norwich, in which he assisted James Mccarthy. 2 were experimental rotational line ups in the league Cup. If you think that is enough to write him off, I think you are being extremely harsh.

Going forward, Everton need a complete overhaul of the midfield and the squad in general. The 1st thing we should be trying to do is to get rid of the expensive failures, players who have had chance after chance after chance, and continue to prove that they are either unable, or unwilling to put in the effort or the performances that are required and are quite literally strangling us with the money they are leaching from the club on a weekly basis.

Young, talented, homegrown players who are on much less money than the top earners, who, with the right coaching and environment, could still play a part, should be way down on this list of priorities to sell or release.

I really hope that Ancelotti gives him a chance and allows him his last year on his contract to prove once and for all what he can do.

 

[alwaysblue]

I don't see how it's too late at all. Think people are being a bit unfair in regards to his supposed chances he's had and a bit unrealistic in terms of what we are going to do in the summer. We are not going to sell 15 fringe players and sign 6 or 7 World class midfield players that totally transform our squad. That is a pipe dream.

As regards his chances, I really don't think 2 League Cup games with rotated sides counts as chances, not when you consider the sheer volume of games people have played and failed in over the same time frame.

As for his loans, he went to Forrest and did well prior to the manager being replaced for a defensive manager who refused to use him in the same way. Some will point to this as a stick to beat him with "Not enough effort" etc, but that's not always the case. Barkleys 1st loan to Leeds wasn't a good 1 either. The loans are a way of exposing them to different pressures and experiences, not to say if they don't turn into Messi at League 1 or Championship levels that they are done at 19.

He scored 10 goals from midfield in his 1st season in the championship btw, not to be sniffed at.

After Forrest, he then had another relatively successful loan to Sheffield United. That's not to say he was a star player or anything outrageous, but he contributed, he played for the team, in several unfamiliar positions, and scored 2 goals, at least 1 of which was an important match winning headed goal, on the way to seeing them promoted automatically from an unlikely position after a fine end of season run of form. The manager, players and fans all loved him, so I don't see this as being the failure that others seem to. He was a 20 year old lad joining a hard working promotion chasing side in the championship, a tough league, on loan. We have signed players on loan who have had little or no effect, some haven't even played, It's not an easy task to be that guy coming in to an established set up.

The Derby loan, to my mind, is the only 1 I would say was a failure. But as we have seen, sometimes you fit, sometimes you don't. This goes for some of the best players in Europe, who have struggled at 1 side only to flourish at another. But some are confident enough to say that it proves, at 21, that your career path is now written for you? Try telling Jamie Vardy that.

The important thing for me, is he picked himself up, dusted himself off, and went back out on loan again, to a struggling side in danger of relegation, and has obviously had a positive impact, as the side have climbed away from danger, with a decent run of form. Yesterday's result is the pinnacle so far. With 2 games left, they are still in with a great chance of surviving even after a 12 point deduction. If they manage that, it will be some achievement.

He has had 4 loans now, all in the championship, and 3 of them have been or are currently considered something of a success. The lad is still only 22 and only has 3 starts at Everton. 1 was a solid performance, a 4-0 vs Norwich, in which he assisted James Mccarthy. 2 were experimental rotational line ups in the league Cup. If you think that is enough to write him off, I think you are being extremely harsh.

Going forward, Everton need a complete overhaul of the midfield and the squad in general. The 1st thing we should be trying to do is to get rid of the expensive failures, players who have had chance after chance after chance, and continue to prove that they are either unable, or unwilling to put in the effort or the performances that are required and are quite literally strangling us with the money they are leaching from the club on a weekly basis.

Young, talented, homegrown players who are on much less money than the top earners, who, with the right coaching and environment, could still play a part, should be way down on this list of priorities to sell or release.

I really hope that Ancelotti gives him a chance and allows him his last year on his contract to prove once and for all what he can do.

Spot on

 

[davids]

I don't see how it's too late at all. Think people are being a bit unfair in regards to his supposed chances he's had and a bit unrealistic in terms of what we are going to do in the summer. We are not going to sell 15 fringe players and sign 6 or 7 World class midfield players that totally transform our squad. That is a pipe dream.

As regards his chances, I really don't think 2 League Cup games with rotated sides counts as chances, not when you consider the sheer volume of games people have played and failed in over the same time frame.

As for his loans, he went to Forrest and did well prior to the manager being replaced for a defensive manager who refused to use him in the same way. Some will point to this as a stick to beat him with "Not enough effort" etc, but that's not always the case. Barkleys 1st loan to Leeds wasn't a good 1 either. The loans are a way of exposing them to different pressures and experiences, not to say if they don't turn into Messi at League 1 or Championship levels that they are done at 19.

He scored 10 goals from midfield in his 1st season in the championship btw, not to be sniffed at.

After Forrest, he then had another relatively successful loan to Sheffield United. That's not to say he was a star player or anything outrageous, but he contributed, he played for the team, in several unfamiliar positions, and scored 2 goals, at least 1 of which was an important match winning headed goal, on the way to seeing them promoted automatically from an unlikely position after a fine end of season run of form. The manager, players and fans all loved him, so I don't see this as being the failure that others seem to. He was a 20 year old lad joining a hard working promotion chasing side in the championship, a tough league, on loan. We have signed players on loan who have had little or no effect, some haven't even played, It's not an easy task to be that guy coming in to an established set up.

The Derby loan, to my mind, is the only 1 I would say was a failure. But as we have seen, sometimes you fit, sometimes you don't. This goes for some of the best players in Europe, who have struggled at 1 side only to flourish at another. But some are confident enough to say that it proves, at 21, that your career path is now written for you? Try telling Jamie Vardy that.

The important thing for me, is he picked himself up, dusted himself off, and went back out on loan again, to a struggling side in danger of relegation, and has obviously had a positive impact, as the side have climbed away from danger, with a decent run of form. Yesterday's result is the pinnacle so far. With 2 games left, they are still in with a great chance of surviving even after a 12 point deduction. If they manage that, it will be some achievement.

He has had 4 loans now, all in the championship, and 3 of them have been or are currently considered something of a success. The lad is still only 22 and only has 3 starts at Everton. 1 was a solid performance, a 4-0 vs Norwich, in which he assisted James Mccarthy. 2 were experimental rotational line ups in the league Cup. If you think that is enough to write him off, I think you are being extremely harsh.

Going forward, Everton need a complete overhaul of the midfield and the squad in general. The 1st thing we should be trying to do is to get rid of the expensive failures, players who have had chance after chance after chance, and continue to prove that they are either unable, or unwilling to put in the effort or the performances that are required and are quite literally strangling us with the money they are leaching from the club on a weekly basis.

Young, talented, homegrown players who are on much less money than the top earners, who, with the right coaching and environment, could still play a part, should be way down on this list of priorities to sell or release.

I really hope that Ancelotti gives him a chance and allows him his last year on his contract to prove once and for all what he can do.

Fact it's his last year means we are more likely to cash in.

 

[Lanolin]

It's frustrating, as Lewis Gibson was in the same U17 World Cup winning side as Sancho and Foden, yet hasn't been anywhere near our first team despite our defenders generally being a bit crap. Instead, the benchwarming slot has gone to a kid signed from Carlisle instead. We had five members of the U20 World Cup winning squad. Lookman has already gone. Connolly and Dowell seem very unlikely to make it through, and who knows what will happen to Kenny. To have just one of those five a regular in the first team squad is not a great showing.

Not sure it's really fair to compare Gibson to Foden and Sancho to be honest. They were the stars of the squad, he was the back up left back.

 

[Barnfred 55]

T

That third one is cracking to be fair, I think he's more suited to more slow tempo leagues where you'll get that 1-3 extra seconds on the ball because he really does have a good left foot.

Actually, that goal is probably as good as it gets. But we've seen moments of brilliance like that all too many times before from the lad. You could easily put a 10 minute video of him together of goals, assists and sublime passes in which he'd look like one of the worlds best players

 

[Barnfred 55]

It's frustrating, as Lewis Gibson was in the same U17 World Cup winning side as Sancho and Foden, yet hasn't been anywhere near our first team despite our defenders generally being a bit crap. Instead, the benchwarming slot has gone to a kid signed from Carlisle instead. We had five members of the U20 World Cup winning squad. Lookman has already gone. Connolly and Dowell seem very unlikely to make it through, and who knows what will happen to Kenny. To have just one of those five a regular in the first team squad is not a great showing.

You cold add Liam Walsh to that list. He was named in the original squad and had to pull out due to injury.

 

[Barnfred 55]

I don't see how it's too late at all. Think people are being a bit unfair in regards to his supposed chances he's had and a bit unrealistic in terms of what we are going to do in the summer. We are not going to sell 15 fringe players and sign 6 or 7 World class midfield players that totally transform our squad. That is a pipe dream.

As regards his chances, I really don't think 2 League Cup games with rotated sides counts as chances, not when you consider the sheer volume of games people have played and failed in over the same time frame.

As for his loans, he went to Forrest and did well prior to the manager being replaced for a defensive manager who refused to use him in the same way. Some will point to this as a stick to beat him with "Not enough effort" etc, but that's not always the case. Barkleys 1st loan to Leeds wasn't a good 1 either. The loans are a way of exposing them to different pressures and experiences, not to say if they don't turn into Messi at League 1 or Championship levels that they are done at 19.

He scored 10 goals from midfield in his 1st season in the championship btw, not to be sniffed at.

After Forrest, he then had another relatively successful loan to Sheffield United. That's not to say he was a star player or anything outrageous, but he contributed, he played for the team, in several unfamiliar positions, and scored 2 goals, at least 1 of which was an important match winning headed goal, on the way to seeing them promoted automatically from an unlikely position after a fine end of season run of form. The manager, players and fans all loved him, so I don't see this as being the failure that others seem to. He was a 20 year old lad joining a hard working promotion chasing side in the championship, a tough league, on loan. We have signed players on loan who have had little or no effect, some haven't even played, It's not an easy task to be that guy coming in to an established set up.

The Derby loan, to my mind, is the only 1 I would say was a failure. But as we have seen, sometimes you fit, sometimes you don't. This goes for some of the best players in Europe, who have struggled at 1 side only to flourish at another. But some are confident enough to say that it proves, at 21, that your career path is now written for you? Try telling Jamie Vardy that.

The important thing for me, is he picked himself up, dusted himself off, and went back out on loan again, to a struggling side in danger of relegation, and has obviously had a positive impact, as the side have climbed away from danger, with a decent run of form. Yesterday's result is the pinnacle so far. With 2 games left, they are still in with a great chance of surviving even after a 12 point deduction. If they manage that, it will be some achievement.

He has had 4 loans now, all in the championship, and 3 of them have been or are currently considered something of a success. The lad is still only 22 and only has 3 starts at Everton. 1 was a solid performance, a 4-0 vs Norwich, in which he assisted James Mccarthy. 2 were experimental rotational line ups in the league Cup. If you think that is enough to write him off, I think you are being extremely harsh.

Going forward, Everton need a complete overhaul of the midfield and the squad in general. The 1st thing we should be trying to do is to get rid of the expensive failures, players who have had chance after chance after chance, and continue to prove that they are either unable, or unwilling to put in the effort or the performances that are required and are quite literally strangling us with the money they are leaching from the club on a weekly basis.

Young, talented, homegrown players who are on much less money than the top earners, who, with the right coaching and environment, could still play a part, should be way down on this list of priorities to sell or release.

I really hope that Ancelotti gives him a chance and allows him his last year on his contract to prove once and for all what he can do.

You'd like to think that in a squad of 25, there's room for one home grown player capable of the sort of brilliance he can do. Also, just being a left footer in this current squad gives us another dimension.

I'd love to see it happen, but I just can't. The only saving grace is that Carlo probably now knows who he is. You can't possibly watch that third goal and not say "who's he?" He may decide to have a look see in close season, but I'm not sure whether they're going to have any friendlies during that period

 

[yakublue]

I feel like we haven't had a good left footed attacking player for about 10 years.

Lukaku was decent

 

[Kever10]

Fact it's his last year means we are more likely to cash in.

Maybe so, but it also means we will receive less for him, so the idea that selling him for a nominal fee, and removing his wage from the books would go anyway to help improve our transfer kitty, or help us challenge the dreaded FFP block, is wishful thinking. On the other hand, giving him an opportunity to show what he can do and be a part of the squad could save us millions.

People point to the brilliance of his 3rd goal yesterday, and rightly so. But for me, his 2nd goal stood out in another way. Other than Richarlison, I don't think there's another player in our squad who can carry the ball in that way, at pace, and has an end product at the end of it. Iwobi? Walcot? Bernard would've fell over and I haven't seen the ghost move that quickly in his 3 long years here. And they have been VERY long.

And do you know what else? I actually love the idea of potentially having Dowell and Gordon linking up. It comes to something when the RS are offering more opportunities to young talented players coming through than we are willing to do. This has always been something we have taken pride in over them, but now it seems our fans would rather continue to waste astronomical amounts on more potential flops in some bizarre belief that we are hanging with the elite.

My final thought. I genuinely believe that had Dowell been given as many chances as Sigurdsson and/or Bernard the season, he would have out performed both of them in terms of goal involvement alone. And each 1 of those goals or assists would've been almost £1m per month less costly.

 

[TheDude19]

The issue with giving Dowell another contract is that you end up having another bloke who's in his mid-twenties who has hardly kicked a ball for the first team. It's a waste of time. He's not good enough and I doubt he will ever be a Premier League player.

 

[TheBigIguana]

The issue with giving Dowell another contract is that you end up having another bloke who's in his mid-twenties who has hardly kicked a ball for the first team. It's a waste of time. He's not good enough and I doubt he will ever be a Premier League player.

Dowell would be someone who could easily be moved on if it never worked out. Honestly I'm struggling to see the down side to extending him. And he's only 22 so saying he can't make it at PL level seems to be jumping the gun a bit.

 

[davids]

Maybe so, but it also means we will receive less for him, so the idea that selling him for a nominal fee, and removing his wage from the books would go anyway to help improve our transfer kitty, or help us challenge the dreaded FFP block, is wishful thinking. On the other hand, giving him an opportunity to show what he can do and be a part of the squad could save us millions.

People point to the brilliance of his 3rd goal yesterday, and rightly so. But for me, his 2nd goal stood out in another way. Other than Richarlison, I don't think there's another player in our squad who can carry the ball in that way, at pace, and has an end product at the end of it. Iwobi? Walcot? Bernard would've fell over and I haven't seen the ghost move that quickly in his 3 long years here. And they have been VERY long.

And do you know what else? I actually love the idea of potentially having Dowell and Gordon linking up. It comes to something when the RS are offering more opportunities to young talented players coming through than we are willing to do. This has always been something we have taken pride in over them, but now it seems our fans would rather continue to waste astronomical amounts on more potential flops in some bizarre belief that we are hanging with the elite.

My final thought. I genuinely believe that had Dowell been given as many chances as Sigurdsson and/or Bernard the season, he would have out performed both of them in terms of goal involvement alone. And each 1 of those goals or assists would've been almost £1m per month less costly.

As most of us do I really want us to build a young team of homegrown talent.
Just think he's found his level,when he has played he's just looked a yard off the pace and hasn't shown the level of physicality needed in the Prem. Granted he hasn't had much of a chance,but players have to grab it when they get the opportunity.

 

[catcherintherye]

It's frustrating, as Lewis Gibson was in the same U17 World Cup winning side as Sancho and Foden, yet hasn't been anywhere near our first team despite our defenders generally being a bit crap. Instead, the benchwarming slot has gone to a kid signed from Carlisle instead. We had five members of the U20 World Cup winning squad. Lookman has already gone. Connolly and Dowell seem very unlikely to make it through, and who knows what will happen to Kenny. To have just one of those five a regular in the first team squad is not a great showing.

I think there's a lot in this, and it's a really important post.

To me we've gone and spent a load of money, on players who could kindly be referred to as bang average. We undoubtedly need to improve the output from the academy, I do fully understand that and that will always be the case.We should buy more in. However we've had some good raw materials and I'm not sure we've really made the most of them.Calvert Lewin and Holgate have really come on, but not enough of the others have, which is a perennial problem to me.

I think if Ancelotti wouldn't have come here, we'd have never seen Gordon either.

Gibson is a fair point, though he's had a great loan. The brave thing for us to do though, for me is to keep him as back up left back and 5th choice C B and jettison signing one in favour of adding quality in key areas. As a club, are we forward thinking or brave enough to do that?

As for Dowell, as you often get from Dowell it was a wonder hatrick really. All of them brilliant strikes, and the 2nd as a result of great pressing. The third is a genius goal really. To have the vision and technique to volley the ball into the net takes some doing. I know people say it's just the championship,but no goalkeeper is saving that one. His assist was brilliant as well, glides past 2 and puts it on a plate, and he could have had another one.

Now for the downside though. That performance came in a 10. We don't play a 10 and I don't think we are going to play a 10 either. Has he developed enough to do a job off the flanks? Possibly. But thats a big concern.

It really frustrates me though, that in 1 game, Dowell has more goals in open play and I believe the same goals and assists in open play than Sigurdsson and Iwobi have managed all season. Would we really have been any worse had we not bought those two and allowed Dowell to develop? It's just money down the drain, for a club that allegedly has finite resources.

I always hope the young players do well, I hope Iwobi is punted along with Sigurdsson and this lad takes 1 of the places vacated. It seems a long shot though.