Club Statement: Coronavirus

[Deleted member 38674]

How are you not deeming it complex that we may also have to re-organise football for years to come?

Your main position seems to be it has been out of footballs control (forced upon us as you say) which is true, but it in no way validates the first point. Just because it’s forced upon us, doesn’t make it any less complex or difficult. The position that this has been forced upon us, is good evidence for anything you want it to be. It can just easily be used as an argument to cancel the season, and thus invalidate results.

My position is that voiding creates more problems than it solves, for everyone. It's the preference for the majority of the Football world in this situation. I'm not saying it's not complex, whatever the outcome. But I see the complexities caused by resuming to be far easier to overcome than the complexities caused by voiding.

The lesser of two evils.

Teams signed up to a set of rules, which stated the competition would run from August to May. The integrity of a league necessitates that you stick to the rules, or if you are going to wildly change them, you gain consent of those sides involved.

So, in any circumstance, the rules have to change don't they?

The authorities have already engaged with the sides involved to get their input on the matter as the season cannot continue to the pre-agreed schedule. As reported, presumably this has been done weeks ago, shortly before the authorities announced that the league was to be suspended and resume when 'it is safe and possible to do so'.

How pray tell are you going to convince Bournemouth that they should gamble their status on a season completed months later, when they could just as easily cancel, and preserve their status?

That is an assumption based on the FA / PL both voiding the season and then choosing not to relegate / promote / award teams accordingly based on either existing standings or on a PPG basis, which is another possibility.

It's also based on the assumption that the authorities need to convince Bournemouth at all in that case. The likelihood is that they don't. It's extraordinarily unlikely that single member could veto a suggestion favoured by the association.

If the FA / PL decide to void the season, there is nothing any club could do, short of taking legal action themselves which many may choose to do. Likewise, if the FA / PL decide to resume the season, nobody could dispute it as it's ultimately a continuation of the season they all signed up for, at a later stage.

Re the World Cup, I covered the issue of World Cups by pointing out league football. There is a marked difference in intensity and number of games of a league competition to a cup competition. It’s also played (when in hot countries) in air conditioned stadiums for player safety. Who’s paying to make all the stadiums air conditioned as a result of this change? Playing high end league football would be dangerous. Again you will need to find a solution to this (and one that doesn’t involve other sports, leagues that aren’t top end, or cup competitions) as evidence for how we do this safely.

Playing Football in July and playing Football in August (as they do now) in any country is not going to be vastly different in terms of heat. Wouldn't you agree?

What major football leagues currently run through the summer? Yes there are major sporting competitions that currently exist in the summer schedule. This weakens your argument though. It means networks are less likely to want more action in areas of the schedule that they already have coverage.

The Russian league in particular plays March - November and pretty much always has. Quite a few leagues play over the summer months, I think the MLS does and several of the scandinavian leagues. Your initial assertion was that broadcasters may not pay a premium for Football being played in the summer months because 'there is no evidence', which is an utterly ridiculous premise.

No broadcaster has paid for broadcasting rights on the basis that sports are shown in a particular time frame, that is laughable. They have paid for the rights to broadcast the sport whenever and however it is possible to do so. Football fans will continue to get up at daft'o'clock, all over the world, in their tens of millions, to watch the Football, whether it's being played in July or August. If the existing broadcaster tried to haggle based on those terms, they'd get laughed off the table and another broadcaster would swoop in to meet the demands.

It’s not realistic to assume there are all these consequences if we cancel the season, but no consequences if we start playing it out of the contracted period.

I'm not arguing that there are no consequences, just that there are fewer, less complex consequences with resuming than there are with voiding.

Well some clubs have raised concerns, lots of them haven’t. I suspect a lot of the concerns are based upon the fact the FA is providing mixed messages, in that they cannot finish but the pro game (level 4 upwards) seemingly can. If the FA took a strong decision and cancelled all leagues, I suspect those frustrations would greatly reduce. It is unfair that the whole football pyramid isn’t being treated fairly.

It's not even 60 anymore, it's actually more than 100. If you read their letter, and the subsequent interviews with those involved who have aired their views on the matter on Talksport and various other platforms, their frustrations aren't primarily based on the inconsistency of the decision making and purely the consequences of the decision itself which they called 'unfair' and 'hugely disappointing'.

"Our concern is grounded primarily in the needless and inexplicable haste exercised in reaching the decision"

It looks like most clubs aren't looking for a strong decision from the FA, as you suggest, it appears they're looking for guidance, consultation and leadership through a difficult period for all. Given the strong response, it wouldn't be surprising to see the FA backtrack on the decision (which hasn't yet been approved yet anyway).

 

[Death]

How are you defending the position it’s not “complex” to restart a season, in a month that traditionally league football has never been played, following a length of break that we have never seen previously within a league season (and indeed between seasons)? How are you not deeming it complex that we may also have to re-organise football for years to come?

Your main position seems to be it has been out of footballs control (forced upon us as you say) which is true, but it in no way validates the first point. Just because it’s forced upon us, doesn’t make it any less complex or difficult.

The position that this has been forced upon us, is good evidence for anything you want it to be. It can just easily be used as an argument to cancel the season, and thus invalidate results.

I have given you the example of World Cup 2022, which has moved a single season (and caused less disruption than is being suggested to multiple seasons currently). That took months, if not years to negotiate, with a world body keen for it. There doesn’t seem to be any notion of UEFA being anywhere as much support/appetite for the wild plan to restart the same season months later. You are trying to organize an equivalent, and greater process into a matter of weeks, while we are dealing with a pandemic, and clubs barely being able to financially stay afloat.

If you can’t acknowledge this is extremely complex, I am not sure how to convince you. Teams signed up to a set of rules, which stated the competition would run from August to May. The integrity of a league necessitates that you stick to the rules, or if you are going to wildly change them, you gain consent of those sides involved. How pray tell are you going to convince Bournemouth that they should gamble their status on a season completed months later, when they could just as easily cancel, and preserve their status?


Re the World Cup, I covered the issue of World Cups by pointing out league football. There is a marked difference in intensity and number of games of a league competition to a cup competition. It’s also played (when in hot countries) in air conditioned stadiums for player safety. Who’s paying to make all the stadiums air conditioned as a result of this change? Playing high end league football would be dangerous. Again you will need to find a solution to this (and one that doesn’t involve other sports, leagues that aren’t top end, or cup competitions) as evidence for how we do this safely.

What major football leagues currently run through the summer? Yes there are major sporting competitions that currently exist in the summer schedule. This weakens your argument though. It means networks are less likely to want more action in areas of the schedule that they already have coverage.

You talk about their being “no evidence” of a desire for a concession. Look there’s absolutely no evidence broadcasters would pay what they currently do for a product that moved from August-May. There is overwhelming evidence this is what they want, as this is what they have negotiated. They may be happy to pay similar amounts for a competition in a different period, but there is no evidence to show that currently. It’s just a wing and a prayer.

As for the concessions, no there’s no direct evidence, But we keep being told that broadcasters are going to start wanting to desperately claw money back if the season has to be cancelled. If that’s the consequence of the logical default position taken, it would be a reasonable assumption that they are looking to claw money back and will use any opportunity (including a breach of contract in playing football out of the contracted period). It’s not realistic to assume there are all these consequences if we cancel the season, but no consequences if we start playing it out of the contracted period.

As for teams to be decided on who finishes where. It’s not an easy solution. However at present Spurs would finish in the CL. There is one big winner (Spurs) and one big loser (Leicester). The season was incomplete, and Spurs may well have finished in the top 4. We don’t know, so we have to go back to what we know, which is in a completed season Spurs qualified for Europe.

Well some clubs have raised concerns, lots of them haven’t. I suspect a lot of the concerns are based upon the fact the FA is providing mixed messages, in that they cannot finish but the pro game (level 4 upwards) seemingly can. If the FA took a strong decision and cancelled all leagues, I suspect those frustrations would greatly reduce. It is unfair that the whole football pyramid isn’t being treated fairly.

couldn’t read all that put I hope you powned him real good

 

[canuckblue]

Any chance of a date?

This isn't Match, buddy.

 

[Death]

Like the pinnacle of RAWK V GOT this.

 

[Catfish Blues]

Like the pinnacle of RAWK V GOT this.

Death to the loser, I say.
Stick around mate, there's work for you in this thread.

 

[Encoder]

@catcherintherye vs @Keiran , bookmarking this exchange in case I ever get insomnia

 

[MikeH72]

@catcherintherye vs @Keiran , bookmarking this exchange in case I ever get insomnia

It’s a paragraph-off.

 

[Stan Lee Park]

@catcherintherye vs @Keiran , bookmarking this exchange in case I ever get insomnia

We've all got too much time on our hands just now.

 

[canuckblue]

We've all got too much time on our hands just now.

Sound. We'll get Styx to provide the theme song for this lockdown.

 

[EFC-FCN]

My issue with August 3rd, is when will the new season start? Does this include all EFL leagues (who will need another 10 days or so to complete the play offs). They probably need 2 weeks in total on top of that longer as some have 11 games to go. So a workable end for the PL if thats the case is early July. Unless we are proposing finishing the PL first and still having EFL games going on?

The 2nd issue, is when do they think the new season will start? How long are teams going to have to adjust to begin promoted/relegated in terms of a transfer window, during a very difficult period? Do they think we can go into a new season like 2 or 3 weeks later?

If it's much of a longer break than that, we will not finish the seasons in type for the Euros.

Seems a ludicrous deadline to me. I think they'd be better sticking to the soft deadline of June 30th. Either way, if we arrant ready to train again in May (mid May) this deadline will not be able to be met.

Best solution is for each club to pick their best Subbuteo player, and decide it all over a weekend !

 

[Jayefc19]

But I did say the Footy will only return as and when the authorities said it was safe to do so, which I'm sure we both agree on.

Why do you care less? Obviously it’s gonna get voided over the summer. We’re back in Europe next season and the kopites aren’t winning the league in the next decade or so. Just accept it for what it is! They probably would have blown it anyway if 13/14 and last season are anything to go by!

 

[catcherintherye]

My position is that voiding creates more problems than it solves, for everyone. It's the preference for the majority of the Football world in this situation. I'm not saying it's not complex, whatever the outcome. But I see the complexities caused by resuming to be far easier to overcome than the complexities caused by voiding.

The lesser of two evils.



So, in any circumstance, the rules have to change don't they?

The authorities have already engaged with the sides involved to get their input on the matter as the season cannot continue to the pre-agreed schedule. As reported, presumably this has been done weeks ago, shortly before the authorities announced that the league was to be suspended and resume when 'it is safe and possible to do so'.



That is an assumption based on the FA / PL both voiding the season and then choosing not to relegate / promote / award teams accordingly based on either existing standings or on a PPG basis, which is another possibility.

It's also based on the assumption that the authorities need to convince Bournemouth at all in that case. The likelihood is that they don't. It's extraordinarily unlikely that single member could veto a suggestion favoured by the association.

If the FA / PL decide to void the season, there is nothing any club could do, short of taking legal action themselves which many may choose to do. Likewise, if the FA / PL decide to resume the season, nobody could dispute it as it's ultimately a continuation of the season they all signed up for, at a later stage.



Playing Football in July and playing Football in August (as they do now) in any country is not going to be vastly different in terms of heat. Wouldn't you agree?



The Russian league in particular plays March - November and pretty much always has. Quite a few leagues play over the summer months, I think the MLS does and several of the scandinavian leagues. Your initial assertion was that broadcasters may not pay a premium for Football being played in the summer months because 'there is no evidence', which is an utterly ridiculous premise.

No broadcaster has paid for broadcasting rights on the basis that sports are shown in a particular time frame, that is laughable. They have paid for the rights to broadcast the sport whenever and however it is possible to do so. Football fans will continue to get up at daft'o'clock, all over the world, in their tens of millions, to watch the Football, whether it's being played in July or August. If the existing broadcaster tried to haggle based on those terms, they'd get laughed off the table and another broadcaster would swoop in to meet the demands.



I'm not arguing that there are no consequences, just that there are fewer, less complex consequences with resuming than there are with voiding.



It's not even 60 anymore, it's actually more than 100. If you read their letter, and the subsequent interviews with those involved who have aired their views on the matter on Talksport and various other platforms, their frustrations aren't primarily based on the inconsistency of the decision making and purely the consequences of the decision itself which they called 'unfair' and 'hugely disappointing'.

"Our concern is grounded primarily in the needless and inexplicable haste exercised in reaching the decision"

It looks like most clubs aren't looking for a strong decision from the FA, as you suggest, it appears they're looking for guidance, consultation and leadership through a difficult period for all. Given the strong response, it wouldn't be surprising to see the FA backtrack on the decision (which hasn't yet been approved yet anyway).

Ok. I mean you haven’t really listed the complexities of cancelling. The issue I highlighted was when you said changing multiple seasons wasn’t complex. That’s untrue, it would be highly complex. It would also be far more complex than a simple decision of cancelling and voiding. It may not be as problematic, but it’s a lot simpler.

Well in a circumstance where the season is to be cancelled, it’s no so much the rules have changed it would be that all other options had ran out. The fall back of any event, if it’s unable to be completed would be it has to be cancelled. That’s a fairly logical position. You can argue about when that point comes, but it’s logical to state if an event can’t be completed, the logical end is the event is cancelled.

Re Bournemouth, I agree you won’t need to convince Bournemouth. However there are 6 teams in the bottom 6, who could go down with a resumption. You have to convince at least one of them, and every other team to get to 14. We believe Spurs want to void too, I suspect ourselves and City will want to.

If your solution is to tell Bournemouth, either play, or we will relegate you part way through the season, I’d imagine Bournemouth will be taking you to court.

Playing league football for 2 weeks in August, and playing through the summer are vastly different. Also countries like Italy, and Spain start at the very end of August.

Ok, so the Russian, Scandanavian and MLS league. 2 questions, firstly which of those leagues schedules have a large TV deal? Secondly, in terms of the European countries, are there climates generally hotter or coler than Spain/Italy? Are they one of the major 4/5/6/7 leagues in Europe?

The broadcasters have agreed a deal for a competition between August-May. We know there is an interest for a competition in that time frame. There is no evidence to say domestic or international broadcasters would bid the same for a different time frame. I’m not saying they wouldn’t, but it’s guesswork. Is it your view, sporting competitions can change schedule times and expect no change in the marketability of the product to broadcasters?

I have looked at the statement. I think a lot of the frustrations would wither away if the FA mirrored the decision taken with the lower leagues with the higher ones. I fully understand that criticism. Hundreds of teams are involved in that, so some like it some don’t. Either way, the precedent is clearly set now, barring a miracle we can see the approach that will be adopted here. Time to get on board really, for better or worse.

 

[jazzy]

In the current situation who cares if the season is voided or starts again at some stage in the future.

If the RS weren't so far clear in the league and voiding the season would burst their bubble we wouldn't even be talking about this as an issue.

Thousands of people are dying and we are seriously debating whether to void or restart the season?

I know that we all need a distraction but is it really that important ?

 

[4737carlin]

In the current situation who cares if the season is voided or starts again at some stage in the future.

If the RS weren't so far clear in the league and voiding the season would burst their bubble we wouldn't even be talking about this as an issue.

Thousands of people are dying and we are seriously debating whether to void or restart the season?

I know that we all need a distraction but is it really that important ?

Agree it's not important, it needs to be voided quick

 

[Toffeelover]

In the current situation who cares if the season is voided or starts again at some stage in the future.

If the RS weren't so far clear in the league and voiding the season would burst their bubble we wouldn't even be talking about this as an issue.

Thousands of people are dying and we are seriously debating whether to void or restart the season?

I know that we all need a distraction but is it really that important ?

NO.