Exactly
And the scum winning the league is abnormal
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And the scum winning the league is abnormal
catcherintherye
Player Valuation: £80m
Your point is a fair one. Footballers don't massively care about fans. I think it's probably not as simple as that, but in a broad sense it is probably the case. My contentions on this though would be;
1) The issue about lack of fans isn't really going to be about the players. Governers of clubs, and also legal teams are going to say it distorts the competition to lose home advantage. It makes the competition fundamentally unfair, and therefore if there is a loss of income deriving from this, they need to be compensated accordingly.
2) The practicalities of these plans just don't work, they won;t work for wider authorities.
I understand players may want to play, and they are an important stakeholder, but they are not massively central at this point.
catcherintherye
Player Valuation: £80m
I noted as much in a recent home page post I put.
I struggle to see how we get 92 professional clubs at the end of this. The reality is, English football is uniquely exposed in this situation. It has a huge amount of pro clubs, is heavily reliant upon TV moneys and also upon sponsorship (at the very top end).
I think most European leagues, with much smaller professional cohorts will be far better placed to deal with this crisis. The storm for football is just coming though.
It makes me angry when you see the EFL, FA and PL essentially still trying to find solutions to an unsolvable problem. We have missed the return at the start of May, which was really the last day we could finish this season. It's done. There are now much more severe problems to be trying to tackle, but the arrogance and cowardice of the leaders in football refuse to move onto them. One is going to be, how are we going to save whole swathes of clubs by the end of this process?
I liken the situation to a war situation. In a war, when you treat soldiers you try to put them into 3 groups. Those who are dead/unsaveable, those who could do with assistance and are in pain but will survive, and finally those who will only survive if they receive immediate assistance. The priority group is the final group. It sounds callous. I read an account of a professor who was at Hillsborough and god bless he implemented that approach at Hillsborough too, as the police were dithering, and goodness knows the number of lives he ended up saving as a result.
In this context, the PL are essentially wasting resources and time trying to bring back to life a dead season. There are far bigger problems down the road, and we really need to be addressing them now.
catcherintherye
Player Valuation: £80m
I don't want any games behind closed doors. However we also have to accept, starting a competition, from point 0 and getting consent from all teams to begin behind closed doors before the competition commences, is very very different (morally, legally, ethically) than introducing a rule change part way through a season, where it was not agreed beforehand.
There is no moral justification for behind closed doors for this season. Once we void and cancel this season, then another debate can be had about how we want football to move forward. I think there's a reasonable debate to be had, and my position would still probably be, without fans it shouldn't go ahead. However we can only have that debate, once we take this season off the table and with it the litigation that will follow if we try to implement an end of season circus.
Television money is a huge part of the income of a football club, but it isn't the only part.
Revenue on matchday is also hugely important not only because of the sale of tickets, but also food, drink, sale of merchandising at the ground and shops in city centres where they exist. Advertising revenues are also going to be affected.
As it stands football could probably manage to finish off season 19/20 without fans just to get it finished(corona virus allowing) but there is no way clubs could face into a new season without fans and still maintain the cost structures that currently exist.
I think we will see a universal decision by all clubs to cut players wages by the same percentage thereby not giving anybody an advantage and treating all players equally.
catcherintherye
Player Valuation: £80m
I think he's partially right. I don't think Sky will withhold all the funds (and it's not even a case of that, they would have to win back monies that have been paid out, which is very difficult). That being said the discussion here is soon going to be, we either finish this season, or finish next season. I don't think you can do both. Cancelling next season, and clubs go bust, there's no doubt about that.
I did a quick cursory scan, of what a 25% hit on TV money and a 25-40% hit on sponsorship and 20% hit on gates does to clubs and it's not pretty. Nobody makes a profit. A lot of clubs are already at a point where wages are higher than turnover. I think those numbers above are actually quite cautious and in many ways a best case scenario.
I struggle to see how football operates in the same way. I think e are talking about whether we have recession and serious deflation on the one hand, against an out an out rout on the other.
The other angle to consider for this, is America are getting hammered. Hedge funds in particular taking a pounding. Those who own shares on sports company's are going to see them greatly reduced, and may even get to a point of negative equity quite quickly. It's not infeasible a Glazer or an FSG went bust, and if they do, you have a Leeds United situation on your hands. Creditors from outside of sports, who are desperate will start fireselling assets to gain owed money back.
Within this context, if you are a multi-billionaire, perhaps with a diverse portfolio, with assets around the globe, including places such as Russia (who have not been as hit) you are in a strategically very strong position as your pound in the pocket is going to go a lot lot further than 3 months ago. If you are willing to sustain even quite moderate investment, there are huge benefits that follow suit.
I remember remarking in many ways Moshiri arrived perhaps 5 years too late. I suspect spending will go as low as it was in 2008 (about £850m) this summer. We are back to to levels of spending about 5-10 years ago, where such an investment would go a lot further.
catcherintherye
Player Valuation: £80m
You are correct. Essentially the 3 main types of income are TV, sponsorship and gate receipts. The 4th is player trading.
In essence Sponsorship is the one that benefits the top clubs the most. The PL clubs as a whole are dependent on TV and the lower down the pyramid it's gate receipts.
In this situation, it's hard to avoid all of those revenue streams not being quite dramatically hit, at the same time.
I think some sort of unilateral decision to cut wages will need to be considered. It may need to be a 30-40% cut. Again it adds deflationary pressure, and I wouldn't think they are going to be back to "normal" levels for some time. I mean whether it's a one off cut, or a permanent agreement I don't know. As a club, who need to cut wages, having an industry wide reduction would really help us.
There is no guarantee players agree though. We will have to see what the PFA says. I mean I do think the only way to avert a major spiral will be to cut wages. Another will be that fees are also cut by a similar margin.
This will be a crisis that hits all areas of football though, big and small clubs alike.
Jeff Jones
Player Valuation: £35m
Re pages 213/4. The reason why you don't need electricians at a match in July is because it doesn't go dark until well after 10.00 pm and floodlights aren't needed. I'm surprised that no one pointed that out.
Probably too busy thinking of new ways of repeating what they've been saying for days and days and days. You know who you are.
Probably too busy thinking of new ways of repeating what they've been saying for days and days and days. You know who you are.
Ring master
Player Valuation: £90m
according to
News: @UEFA shifts @ChampionsLeague and @EuropaLeague until July / August. All international matches in June will be suspended and will probably not be made until autumn.
this but some on here won’t have it
Ha ha ye because you know this.
who said it was the end of football? Nope just this season
BlueStevie35
Player Valuation: £70m
You still need them for stands, lobbies, concessions, screens and scoreboards not to mention operating sound systems
I just don’t agree it’s A matter of when not IF now that it’s Voided
D
Deleted member 38674
Guest
An assumption, what a surprise.
Why would it be necessary for them to move the Euro's back to December specifically?
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