VAR

[Deleted member 28206]

Spot on

Nah. He’s talking balls. A goal is a goal is a goal.

Unless it’s not a goal, I’d rather win a game with a real goal than live on the incompetence of referees.

 

[kenada_blue]

It's still subjective though. Andy Gray did a piece on it the other day which highlights it well, that depending on which frame you use to decide when the ball was kicked, a player can move from onside to offside and vice versa. You can't perfectly define when a pass was made because it isn't instantaneous, so the decision you're making is still subjective, only now over a matter of millimetres.

 

[JimmyK]

Cheers, I tried to do it myself but made a mess of it!

I think he nails the whole thing with this. That bit where the frame is stopped in two different places on Sterling tells you everything you need to know. He's right that nobody would argue with either frame being used, and yet the conclusion reached is different. And some people try to claim this will make things fairer. Incredibly naïve.

 

[dead_soft]

Cheers, I tried to do it myself but made a mess of it!

I think he nails the whole thing with this. That bit where the frame is stopped in two different places on Sterling tells you everything you need to know. He's right that nobody would argue with either frame being used, and yet the conclusion reached is different. And some people try to claim this will make things fairer. Incredibly naïve.

I'm not a particular fan of VAR. I think football was generally fine and this is just a way to make the top end of the game more sellable as a polished commodity. Having said that, if it's looked at without moral or personal objections, it's definitely going to make it less likely for mistakes to happen and for subjective decisions to be made. It's in its first ever week in this competition, I think it's actually made less fuss that expected.

 

[kenada_blue]

Cheers, I tried to do it myself but made a mess of it!

I think he nails the whole thing with this. That bit where the frame is stopped in two different places on Sterling tells you everything you need to know. He's right that nobody would argue with either frame being used, and yet the conclusion reached is different. And some people try to claim this will make things fairer. Incredibly naïve.

Which goes back to agreeing whether millimetres gives a player enough advantage on an offside for this to work.

So either VAR will adjust its rules...or the game will change its rules.

 

[kenada_blue]

I'm not a particular fan of VAR. I think football was generally fine and this is just a way to make the top end of the game more sellable as a polished commodity. Having said that, if it's looked at without moral or personal objections, it's definitely going to make it less likely for mistakes to happen and for subjective decisions to be made. It's in its first ever week in this competition, I think it's actually made less fuss that expected.

Agree with that.

Think most are waiting for the meltdown to happen.

 

[Tubey]

Nonsense, the ball is still rolling forward on the prior frames.

 

[Tubey]

For me, anything which means that legitimate goals are more likely to be allowed and illegitimate goals aren't is a good thing.

VAR works and worked tremendously well this week. Every decision was spot on.

I don't understand how you can be a football fan of a club like Everton, witnessing years of no opposition getting anything at Old Trafford and Anfield, Rodwell getting sent off for nothing against Suarez, Collina disallowing a critical goal in our history for absolutely nothing... you've surely got to be completely for anything that has a very good chance of eradicating nonsense like that?

Two things have ruined the game over the last 20 years - money and referee incompetence/referees on the take. Let's embrace something that gets rid of one of those things ffs

 

[kenada_blue]

For me, anything which means that legitimate goals are more likely to be allowed and illegitimate goals aren't is a good thing.

VAR works and worked tremendously well this week. Every decision was spot on.

I don't understand how you can be a football fan of a club like Everton, witnessing years of no opposition getting anything at Old Trafford and Anfield, Rodwell getting sent off for nothing against Suarez, Collina disallowing a critical goal in our history for absolutely nothing... you've surely got to be completely for anything that has a very good chance of eradicating nonsense like that?

Two things have ruined the game over the last 20 years - money and referee incompetence/referees on the take. Let's embrace something that gets rid of one of those things ffs

What if it doesn't though?

Think that's what Gray was talking about. Where's VARs set guidelines in the replays? What angle, speed, view point?

As for the Rodwell challenge for eg...what's to say that would've been over turned during the game?

It's the minutest of details that, if we're playing the game like that, will be scrutinised more in depth.

 

[Tubey]

What if it doesn't though?

Think that's what Gray was talking about. Where's VARs set guidelines in the replays? What angle, speed, view point?

As for the Rodwell challenge for eg...what's to say that would've been over turned during the game?

It's the minutest of details that, if we're playing the game like that, will be scrutinised more in depth.

Then you refine it til it does. Similar tech in cricket/tennis has been refined loads of times to get it to standard.

You don't just bin it in five minutes, especially when its' crime is getting decisions correct!

 

[Frang]

just got a funny feeling it will cost them lot across the way title after title ….


so im all for it.

who cares if we get our 3rd goal against Brighton chalked off ...

 

[kenada_blue]

Then you refine it til it does. Similar tech in cricket/tennis has been refined loads of times to get it to standard.

You don't just bin it in five minutes, especially when its' crime is getting decisions correct!

I've never said bin it. But this has been around for years and still needs "refining".

My bugbear is that it should be an additional tool the refs use when needed and not for them to be dictate to.

 

[Seamus Colemole]

It's still subjective though. Andy Gray did a piece on it the other day which highlights it well, that depending on which frame you use to decide when the ball was kicked, a player can move from onside to offside and vice versa. You can't perfectly define when a pass was made because it isn't instantaneous, so the decision you're making is still subjective, only now over a matter of millimetres.

He's right in what he shows that whichever frame they choose to use can make the difference between someone being off and being on, however i'm petty sure that offside is judged from when the ball is kicked which is deemed to be when the foot first makes contact with the ball so thats the frame which the video should be stopped at and offside judged.

 

[JimmyK]

He's right in what he shows that whichever frame they choose to use can make the difference between someone being off and being on, however i'm petty sure that offside is judged from when the ball is kicked which is deemed to be when the foot first makes contact with the ball so thats the frame which the video should be stopped at and offside judged.

Either that isn’t the case, or the decision he’s showing was wrong, because it shows that Sterling was onside when contact was made with the ball.

 

[Seamus Colemole]

Either that isn’t the case, or the decision he’s showing was wrong, because it shows that Sterling was onside when contact was made with the ball.

I just checked and it is the first point of contact with the ball that is used to determine an offside position so thats when the VAR official should have paused the frame and checked.

As for when they did freeze it, i just tried to compare the Andy Gray video to the still used on MOTD which was supposedly the one VAR used and it's hard to tell but it does seem like the one Andy Gray suggests they used was different. Plus the angle across the pitch in Grays version where he looked on is different to the one in the still where he looked off.

Hard to tell really but i'd put money on VAR being right and Andy Gray being a tit who just wants to complain about officials decisions like he's done his entire punditry career.