Playing for the shirt! Is it real?

[Verbal Kint]

Apart from Coleman, Baines, Jags and maybe Pickford i honestly don't think our players care if they win/Lose or draw.

Paycheck and a bigger money move is all they care about

 

[wellillwill]

I bought mine.

 

[captainvindaloo]

I don't know about them "playing for the shirt", I just want to see more competitiveness in them. The best players have a passion to win everything, from world cups to simple games of tiddly winks. They just have that overwhelming desire to be the best and be winners at every competition, no matter what.

The worst players only seem to have ambition to be just good enough to make it to a certain level. Satisfied that they have "made it" they now just turn up and do the bare minimum required to rake in their giant paycheck while they can. But, that's ok, as when they retire early they can go on to more big paychecks as TV pundits, wherein they get to criticise better players than they ever were.

 

[WA Toffee]

I think part of it is the truly international flavour of the premier league. First of all, why would you expect someone from France, Peru, Burkina Faso etc to have a real affinity and passion for Everton? They don’t it’s a job. I’m sure they try to improve and play the best they can each week, but there won’t be any real passion.
The other part of it is that the more “technically advanced” nations coach their players more in the technical &tactical aspects of the game, whereas the UK fans still demand a certain amount of running around and putting your body on the line. This can lead to the perception that they don’t have the passion, whereas they are actually just better tactically and understand when to go in hard and when to hold their position.
As we have more and more foreign coaches in the league, we will see more and more technical teams and less of the huff and puff “passion” teams.

 

[degsy]

I was talking to a young taxi driver fella yesterday. He was a blue so we had a good gab about Everton as good men do.

....Surely with so much at stake as a pro footballer it is in your interest to please the manager and the fans by working your ass off.

MMaybe I'm being knaive. You tell me...

Cheers

Yup, naive it is.
In would hazard there is no reason to please the manager or fans, you get the same amount of money for sitting in the stands and not even making it to the bench

If I was good enough or young enough I would love to play Sunday. The problem these days is, players change clubs that often, they have no affiliation to the Derby or to the shirt. On Sunday do, Keane and Zouma, Gana and Gomes, Rich, Iceland, Lookman, Theo actually care. Its a big game yes and I'm sure they are all up for it, but do they lose any sleep if we lose. Probably not. They get paid that's all

This

Our players are shithouses

...aand, sadly, this.

They play for the name on the back of the shirt and by extension the agent, not the badge on the front

 

[blueblueday]

Just came back to this thread. Gotta say some great insights. Seems us fans still care.

It's true it's kinda silly to talk of these mad fellas runnib

I think part of it is the truly international flavour of the premier league. First of all, why would you expect someone from France, Peru, Burkina Faso etc to have a real affinity and passion for Everton? They don’t it’s a job. I’m sure they try to improve and play the best they can each week, but there won’t be any real passion.
The other part of it is that the more “technically advanced” nations coach their players more in the technical &tactical aspects of the game, whereas the UK fans still demand a certain amount of running around and putting your body on the line. This can lead to the perception that they don’t have the passion, whereas they are actually just better tactically and understand when to go in hard and when to hold their position.
As we have more and more foreign coaches in the league, we will see more and more technical teams and less of the huff and puff “passion” teams.

Love this explanation.

 

[Berenger]

Same reason winning the league with Everton on Champ Man doesn’t make you a better manager than Marco Silva.

 

[Tree13]

I don't know about them "playing for the shirt", I just want to see more competitiveness in them. The best players have a passion to win everything, from world cups to simple games of tiddly winks. They just have that overwhelming desire to be the best and be winners at every competition, no matter what.

The worst players only seem to have ambition to be just good enough to make it to a certain level. Satisfied that they have "made it" they now just turn up and do the bare minimum required to rake in their giant paycheck while they can. But, that's ok, as when they retire early they can go on to more big paychecks as TV pundits, wherein they get to criticise better players than they ever were.

This, in spades.

I've played rugby at no more than a mediocre level, and I've had teammates who hated losing so much that when they are 24-0 down with three minutes left in the game they will still commit to every tackle, every ruck, every line-break with a ferocity that make you think "bloody hell, if he can do it so can I.". I'm not saying that this is the ONLY thing required to be the best - far from it. But you cannot be the best WITHOUT this attitude.

It's the attitude of "We might lose, but no-one is going to be able to point the finger at me and claim I was wasn't doing my best." The very, very best players are all completely consumed by this massive obsession with self-respect. Read Johnny Wilkinson's autobiography if you want a glimpse into the mindset of a World Cup winner who was his own harshest critic.

Sadly there are a LOT of players on the books at Everton who are perfectly happy to have the blame laid at their door, because they still get paid £50k+ per week regardless. Some of them are happy to never even get picked to play, because they get paid regardless. At Everton in particular the problem is compounded by the fact that there is no real competition for places in the starting lineup, even though our squad is bloated.

 

[goodisonopheliac]

I definitely agree about wanting to win. Football is a competitive game, if you just want a fun kickabout then professional football is not for you. I'm not a footballer myself, obviously, but I am a perfectionist and I beat myself up about turning in a crap translation. I always feel guilty, especially when I make basic errors.

I think it's unlikely that players just laze around like people suggest unless they have come through our youth ranks perhaps. I find it really unlikely that someone with the drive to become one of the worlds best players (as in the top few hundred out of the billions of people on this planet), just gives up when they get a competitive game.

They are perhaps not good enough compared to the others that made it to this level, they try too hard, find it hard to get a partnership going so balls go one way when the partner player goes the other (this is particular makes players look worse than they are), not coached strategically well enough and a number of other possibilities, I do however really doubt that a genuine lack of heart and effort are a part of it.

Generally the motivation will be career rather than club, but that is still just as big a driver for many. Wanting to play well enough to force a move to the real big payers like City will be a big force as well.

Our biggest problem is a lack of understanding of the movement of each others game to be honest. A 5 yard pass doesn't reach it's target more often because the intended target has run in a different direction, than because it's passed badly for example. It's the passer that gets the grief though. This is the same all over the pitch. Strikers make runs that don't get picked out, midfielders do through balls that don't get run onto, defenders pass players on who don't get picked up and so on.

I think they play with passion, it's just misplaced and often obscured by a pass being misplaced at the end of a run.

Not to say we are not playing like donkeys mind. Just I don't buy the lack of heart and desire argument, if they didn't have it, they wouldn't be premier league players surely?

Sometimes a team can play their balls off and still lose. I saw Man United play Fulham, and Fulham tried. They really did. But they just were not good enough.

Also, bear in mind that professional footballers have to train much more intensively, and much harder, than Sunday League footballers.

 

[goodisonopheliac]

I agree with this but could you argue that what you've said relies on hindsight? What construes passion or a strong mentality going into a match and the foresight to have them attributes? For me the players can be equally as enthused about playing for the club but we won't know unless we can take a look in their brains.

We probably assume that Gylfi isn't as passionate about the club as we think Coleman is; But it could be that he feels it more than Coleman however his demeanor and playstyle (slower, similar to how everyone thinks Ozil is lethargic even though they both put in tons of effort) means that on the pitch it seems like Coleman is showing more passion than Gylfi?

Sigurdsson is also very quiet and shy compared to Coleman. So is Baines. Players have different personalities. Same with managers - not all managers scream and shout and run up and down the touchline.

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

We concede a goal, our players just look around at each other, then walk away heads down, that says it all.

 

[blueblueday]

Having read all the posts I think it's fair to say there are a few reasons for this apparent lack of passion.

The fact that most are from different countries and therefore perhaps find it harder to generate the passion that a core of home grown players would. I mean it's hard to relate when the cultural nuances of your home country differs slightly to the others.

Personalities. There is clearly no loud leaders in our team. Too many quiet players. When opposition scores nobody takes responsibility.

The foreign coaching style has more focus on when to go in hard. The modern athlete conserves energy. They learn about probabilities.

They have an awesome cushion of incredible riches that fails to incentivise them. They can fail and move on while watching their wealth increase.

Scared of getting injured. Lacking a brave heart such as James Mccarthy. Look what happened to him. It's easier to stay mid table and be pain free.

After a few losses a lack of confidence can make players look tired and seemingly uninterested when in fact they are paralysed by fear.

Oh well. Maybe we can start turning this culture of apathy around tomorrow.

Cheers fellow blues.

 

[Death]

I wish I was alive to experience this everton. players seemed to have a personality. I didn't think that was a thing.

 

[Death]

l

I wish I was alive to experience this everton. players seemed to have a personality. I didn't think that was a thing.

I mean the interviews it's like they are saying how they feel and what's on thier mind. it's so bizarre!

 

[APN_EFC]

I have a blue in our company who is just like this. was a big fan, and not only is apathetic about Everton, but has completely lost interest in the premier league for the same reasons - no passion, no commitment, too much money and too commercial. I understand, but can't blame anyone really , because we are putting in money by turning up, buying stuff or subscribing to the channels, so we are putting in the £billions into the premier league. I don't think anyone really plays with any passion, and that's why i argue all over the place that local players, English players or blue scousers, are really important to have in the team, even if it's just 2-3, because they can lift the team on Derby day, help the overseas players understand the passion and also 'get' the local fan.

I don't think there's loyalty in either direction, and clubs will happily drop and sell players whom they have adopted as family, if it makes financial sense.