Playing for the shirt! Is it real?

[goodisonopheliac]

I think it's the same for a lot of fans outside the Big 6. Scratch that, Man United are just as bad and they ARE a Big 6 team.

If you want to see passion or people who really do care about their team, watch lower division teams.

 

[zzr45]

Apathy with Everton is very real at the moment.

It’s been a problem for years, probably stretching back to the second season of Martinez. The players we have or attract seem to have a problem with consistency and it’s something that’s never been addressed despite multiple manager changes.

The culture at the club is a big issue, ‘expected losses’ being the epitome of it. We get over excited about big games but lose focus on the ‘small’ ones. It’s odd.

 

[Lanolin]

No, no it bloody isn't, and I wish people would stop going on about OMGTHESHIRT because most players do not give a tinker's toss about it. There is no loyalty in football nowadays.

Also, can someone please tell me what passion is, other than shouting a lot and acting like Duncan Ferguson? Maybe it's the autism, but I do not get why so many on here are obsessed with it. Do we want a team constantly throwing their toys out the pram and acting like babies and starting fights?

Ross Barkley.

I always say it but 'passion' and 'mentality' are what people say you have when you win, and not when you lose. If we were winning every week people would say Richarlison going down easily and constantly moaning was evidence that he's a winner. They'd say 'you need a bit of snide', but when you're losing the exact same things are used as evidence that you're not a winner, you're petulant and childish. Zouma being sent off the other week for arguing would be a sign that he was a born winner and was brimming with passion which boiled over because we lost, but instead it's portrayed as selfish and idiotic.

Coleman was the perfect captain in almost everybody's eyes until we didn't win every game he had the armband for and then suddenly he became an awful captain, and the team had no leadership.

They're fake constructs which allow people to cherry pick things to back up the narrative they want to push.

 

[goodisonopheliac]

Yeah, Coleman always got bandied around as thie ideal replacement for Jags, who apparennty did a decent job against Cardiff, and now he sucks and lacks passion even though he's one of the louder players, same with Pickford. Pickford is not shy and retiring.

I guess passion is Klopp's OTT touchline behaviour, Barkley jumping into the crowd, Guardiola's angry ranting and Gerrard's 'this does not [bad word]ing slip' speech, but it can also be Funes thumping his badge after being sent off, Joey Barton attacking another player, Messi crying or Ashley Williams blindly lashing out. Hell, I saw someone praise Kepa for showing passion against City. Now imagine if Pickford had done that. The guy's already being treated like he lost a final for us, but if he actually did...

 

[Ihaters]

I think it's unlikely that players just laze around like people suggest unless they have come through our youth ranks perhaps. I find it really unlikely that someone with the drive to become one of the worlds best players (as in the top few hundred out of the billions of people on this planet), just gives up when they get a competitive game.

They are perhaps not good enough compared to the others that made it to this level, they try too hard, find it hard to get a partnership going so balls go one way when the partner player goes the other (this is particular makes players look worse than they are), not coached strategically well enough and a number of other possibilities, I do however really doubt that a genuine lack of heart and effort are a part of it.

Generally the motivation will be career rather than club, but that is still just as big a driver for many. Wanting to play well enough to force a move to the real big payers like City will be a big force as well.

Our biggest problem is a lack of understanding of the movement of each others game to be honest. A 5 yard pass doesn't reach it's target more often because the intended target has run in a different direction, than because it's passed badly for example. It's the passer that gets the grief though. This is the same all over the pitch. Strikers make runs that don't get picked out, midfielders do through balls that don't get run onto, defenders pass players on who don't get picked up and so on.

I think they play with passion, it's just misplaced and often obscured by a pass being misplaced at the end of a run.

Not to say we are not playing like donkeys mind. Just I don't buy the lack of heart and desire argument, if they didn't have it, they wouldn't be premier league players surely?

 

[18Chris87]

I always say it but 'passion' and 'mentality' are what people say you have when you win, and not when you lose. If we were winning every week people would say Richarlison going down easily and constantly moaning was evidence that he's a winner. They'd say 'you need a bit of snide', but when you're losing the exact same things are used as evidence that you're not a winner, you're petulant and childish. Zouma being sent off the other week for arguing would be a sign that he was a born winner and was brimming with passion which boiled over because we lost, but instead it's portrayed as selfish and idiotic.

Coleman was the perfect captain in almost everybody's eyes until we didn't win every game he had the armband for and then suddenly he became an awful captain, and the team had no leadership.

They're fake constructs which allow people to cherry pick things to back up the narrative they want to push.

I agree with this but could you argue that what you've said relies on hindsight? What construes passion or a strong mentality going into a match and the foresight to have them attributes? For me the players can be equally as enthused about playing for the club but we won't know unless we can take a look in their brains.

We probably assume that Gylfi isn't as passionate about the club as we think Coleman is; But it could be that he feels it more than Coleman however his demeanor and playstyle (slower, similar to how everyone thinks Ozil is lethargic even though they both put in tons of effort) means that on the pitch it seems like Coleman is showing more passion than Gylfi?

 

[Eggs]

...folk need to accept the game is different now, these fella’s are mega rich and loyalty ‘to the shirt’ isn’t the same as it used to be. I prefer the term ‘plays like the game matters’. Some players still play with a desire, like the game is important to them.

 

[roydo]

...folk need to accept the game is different now, these fella’s are mega rich and loyalty ‘to the shirt’ isn’t the same as it used to be. I prefer the term ‘plays like the game matters’. Some players still play with a desire, like the game is important to them.

Yep, this really. Lets face it, every single pro footballer, with very very few exceptions, have exhibited not only talent, but also the competitive desire to reach the level they have. 99% of their mates from academies, lower league, whatever, didnt make it.

Maybe the cushions of adulation and wealth will soften that edge for some, but if you have that trait as a person, I would suggest most will play, at the very least, for themselves and the team. The shirt, as fans understand, is an added bonus.

 

[Frang]

Our players are shithouses

this is your best post ever and is actually bang on the nail

give me a dave Watson, joe Parkinson and john ebrell over any of these current ponys

 

[Frang]

The players aren't competitive, They have no drive inside them there is no comradery on the pitch, They are a bunch of individuals forced to play with each other because we offered them good money. I haven't seen a good team bond since the Moyes period and I think it goes a long way to being a good team.

bang on

im disillusioned at the whole club from the owner , god knows what his next move will be, probly poach pulis if he gets boro up... right down to the manager and the team.

your totally right in saying we have a team full of individuals being forced to play with eachother

you can just tell when watching us that we have absolutely no team cohesiveness.. and that's what bad teams need more than anything else.

millwall proved that... terrible team but capable of a result by playing as one

 

[Brownie]

It's part of being a top player, for me. The desire to win, to get better all the time, it's all tied together. Even if they're not really arsed what badge they're wearing, the best players look like they care because of their competitiveness and how they approach the game. Very difficult to attract and keep such players when you're the most stagnant club in the world.

 

[Goat]

It's part of being a top player, for me. The desire to win, to get better all the time, it's all tied together. Even if they're not really arsed what badge they're wearing, the best players look like they care because of their competitiveness and how they approach the game. Very difficult to attract and keep such players when you're the most stagnant club in the world.

Hunger Browns, whether its a hunger to move to a bigger club or a hunger to retain your ballons.

 

[Alanbileysfeathercut]

Do you go to your job to strive to be the best?
100% effort
Even Friday afternoon?
Players will say it's just a job.

 

[blueblueday]

I think it's unlikely that players just laze around like people suggest unless they have come through our youth ranks perhaps. I find it really unlikely that someone with the drive to become one of the worlds best players (as in the top few hundred out of the billions of people on this planet), just gives up when they get a competitive game.

They are perhaps not good enough compared to the others that made it to this level, they try too hard, find it hard to get a partnership going so balls go one way when the partner player goes the other (this is particular makes players look worse than they are), not coached strategically well enough and a number of other possibilities, I do however really doubt that a genuine lack of heart and effort are a part of it.

Generally the motivation will be career rather than club, but that is still just as big a driver for many. Wanting to play well enough to force a move to the real big payers like City will be a big force as well.

Our biggest problem is a lack of understanding of the movement of each others game to be honest. A 5 yard pass doesn't reach it's target more often because the intended target has run in a different direction, than because it's passed badly for example. It's the passer that gets the grief though. This is the same all over the pitch. Strikers make runs that don't get picked out, midfielders do through balls that don't get run onto, defenders pass players on who don't get picked up and so on.

I think they play with passion, it's just misplaced and often obscured by a pass being misplaced at the end of a run.

Not to say we are not playing like donkeys mind. Just I don't buy the lack of heart and desire argument, if they didn't have it, they wouldn't be premier league players surely?

Wow, love this. I think you've answered my question mate. I can relate to everything you are saying here. It makes sense.

 

[Frang]

It's part of being a top player, for me. The desire to win, to get better all the time, it's all tied together. Even if they're not really arsed what badge they're wearing, the best players look like they care because of their competitiveness and how they approach the game. Very difficult to attract and keep such players when you're the most stagnant club in the world.

Ronaldo is the epitome of this