2018/19 Kieran Dowell

[dannyboy]

Whether he makes it here or not, the expectations of many fans is worrying as they expect a teenager, or a player in their early twenties, to walk into the XI.

Yes that can occasionally happen but players develop at different rates, so some need more time; typically, a player isn't at their best until they're 24 to 27.

Give it a few years and I wouldn't be surprised if we saw Kieran playing in the Premier League on a regular basis at a lower-half club, or at top Championship club.

I don't think it's worrying, just reflective of the challenge that breaking through at the top end of the Premier League represents. I remember the year Villa went down and their squad was littered with young players who were distinctly average. You can't fill your squad with them through sentiment.

 

[COYBL25]

Ye what a pair of losers hey unlike the kool kids slating them on here

I’ve still got my Raleigh Chopper Special, on which I out wheelie the North Face Ninjias outside the local chippy.

Is that cool enough ?

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

The problem for highly rated youngsters like Dowell is that they ideally need to be brought into a side gradually over 1 or 2 seasons if they are to have a chance to fulfil their potential.
If they can progress into a side that is performing well to a mostly contented fan base , then they will more likely be awarded the time and patience they need to progress.
For those players who are faced with breaking into erratically performing mid table sides with an increasingly impatient group of supporters, the weight of expectation will destroy them before they start. Any player who isn’t performing at Messi levels after 4 months is invariably condemned out of hand.
It’s almost a chicken and egg syndrome, young players need a relatively settled and successful side to aid their progress while underperforming teams demand that the young player comes into the team and immediately becomes the catalyst to creating that successful team.
In the face of conflicting demands something generally has to give and sadly it is usually the future of a promising young player.

 

[APN_EFC]

The case of Dowell, as well as Davies, Kenny, DCL, Lookman, Vlasic, Beni and others makes you wonder, what is the formula for trying to make an 18-21 yo promising player progress? This must be the role of Marcel Brands, and I hope he's looking at it with a clever strategy, more than the usual way young players are treated.
Usually we think they should either be in the first team squad, playing once in a while, or regularly, or going out on loan. But I wonder whether this group and young players in general are promoted too early in some cases. Wouldn't it better if the group were playing together regularly at U23 level, rather than sitting on the bench or in an out of the squad? Isn't it better if they are loaned out to the same team, together? i got the impression from the U20 WC win that Lookman and DCL, Davies and Dowell, Kenny & Davies, Dowell and DCL all seem to have a good connection on the pitch. I know that U23 is not as tough as Championship, but creating an understanding in a group is also important, and I'd love to see a strategy, and I'd also love to hear Brands come out and talk about our top young players. It's bad if the only action about them is on this forum. What is the strategy for Dowell? Can't we know it as well? or in general, can't Silva and Brands talk about them? Here's what I would suggest:
Now, Beni, Kenny should be playing U23 any time they're not in the matchday squad. Lookman and DCL should drop down to U23 any time they don't get on the pitch in the first team. That group I named above should be told that we want them to form the core of the team in the next 5 years and that way they can work towards it, keep in touch with each other and maybe if they're not getting in the first team, they go out on loan together to a place like Celtic or Rangers, or Swansea Middlesborough Norwich Leeds - one of those big Championship clubs. If a mid table Spanish or German team would take them, they'd be good as well

At the moment, I hope that we nurture Davies, Kenny, DCL and Lookman in the first team squad, that we tell Vlasic he has a chance next year, that Beni is the long-term replacement for Gana, and that Dowell is a possible Left CM or something. If we just tell them and let them feel encouraged, it doesnt matter if they make it or not - that's up to them. With Dowell, I feel like it's a choice between him, Siggy and Vlasic, so we have to see what tactics and form say about his participation next year.

 

[Zatara]

Blade here,

As mentioned by bourney he played lwb last night due to a number of injuries and was very comfortable, perhaps robbed not to be up for man of the match. Of course it helps that our formation is so aggressive that he will spent the majority of the time in attacking areas.

In general he’s made a very positive impact in his first few games here, a million miles better than woodburn who we had on loan from your neighbors and probably even a little bit better than David Brooks who’s now doing very well for himself at Bournemouth.

What I would like to know is should he carry on this form, and should we get promoted, would he likely be available in the summer? And if so what valuation would you personally put on him?

Cheers

Thanks for the update, it would be good if you kept coming on here and letting us know how hes getting on

Dowell was kept in the summer and signed an extension and we let Vlasic go on loan with Sigurdsson our first choice.

Dowell has had 1 chance i think and didnt perform well for us and i wouldnt be surprised if hes sold in the summer.

For the fee my guess would be £12-15mil.

 

[Eggs]

Blade here,

As mentioned by bourney he played lwb last night due to a number of injuries and was very comfortable, perhaps robbed not to be up for man of the match. Of course it helps that our formation is so aggressive that he will spent the majority of the time in attacking areas.

In general he’s made a very positive impact in his first few games here, a million miles better than woodburn who we had on loan from your neighbors and probably even a little bit better than David Brooks who’s now doing very well for himself at Bournemouth.

What I would like to know is should he carry on this form, and should we get promoted, would he likely be available in the summer? And if so what valuation would you personally put on him?

Cheers

.....consistency will be the key. Lots of us who have watched him coming through the ranks are big fans but he failed to make an impression when given an opportunity here early in the season. That was as a no10, but he was a very effective right sided midfielder at club and international youth levels. Perhaps wide positions is where to go with him.

As I say, he now needs to consistently produce in a team where points really matter. Everton’s squad is too big and needs pruning, so I imagine he’d be available if the price was right (£15m-£20m).

 

[jerseytoffee]

Still got a chance with Everton I think and shouldn’t be written off, I don’t think he’s even found his best position yet and hasn’t been given a run of games.

For the England u21s he’s been played in a midfield three where he’s played well and I think if Everton play a 433 in future he could be used.

He’s got all the attributes it seems bar the work rate atm which can be worked on and sounds like he put a shift in the other night.

 

[brigadier]

It's not possible for him to be any worse than Walcott at the moment.

 

[Eggs]

Still got a chance with Everton I think and shouldn’t be written off, I don’t think he’s even found his best position yet and hasn’t been given a run of games.

For the England u21s he’s been played in a midfield three where he’s played well and I think if Everton play a 433 in future he could be used.

He’s got all the attributes it seems bar the work rate atm which can be worked on and sounds like he put a shift in the other night.

....the work rate comments do make me smile as I suspect folk will be very surprised at the ground he covers in a match. Sometimes ‘busy’ looking players flatter but Dowell is a big old unit with a languid gate. He’ll be doing his bit. I don’t remember many criticising Kevin Sheedy’s workrate.

Dowell has rare ability to effectively influence a game. Every top team needs players like that. What Dowell is yet to prove is whether he can consistently produce.

 

[john jako]

Dowell the new Hibbo flying down the wing. Who would of thought that.

 

[bol-uk]

Blade here,

As mentioned by bourney he played lwb last night due to a number of injuries and was very comfortable, perhaps robbed not to be up for man of the match. Of course it helps that our formation is so aggressive that he will spent the majority of the time in attacking areas.

In general he’s made a very positive impact in his first few games here, a million miles better than woodburn who we had on loan from your neighbors and probably even a little bit better than David Brooks who’s now doing very well for himself at Bournemouth.

What I would like to know is should he carry on this form, and should we get promoted, would he likely be available in the summer? And if so what valuation would you personally put on him?

Cheers

Interesting you rate him alongside Brooks as I think he is an excellent player and would love him at Everton.

 

[bol-uk]

The way Spurs handled Winks is the example here, gradual involvement leading to him now being an established regular.

 

[Saint Domingo]

He’s best staying out on loan and nowhere near this toxic team at the moment until we find a stable formation and successful way of playing. Same probably for Holgate.

 

[Lanolin]

The way Spurs handled Winks is the example here, gradual involvement leading to him now being an established regular.

I know what you mean but I was talking about this the other day. It's difficult to do that because of his age. Winks had already made his England debut by Dowell's age, if we spend 2 years playing him in bits and pieces he'll be 24 by the time we ask him to become a proper part of the team. I'm not sure that he or the club will be particularly happy with that situation. As an aside it just shows how success changes our perceptions of management. There was an interview I posted the other day where Winks was basically saying Pochettino has forced him to play through injury and the consensus was that this was a good thing to toughen him up. Absolutely guarantee if Silva did that with one of our young players everyone would be saying he was a Neanderthal and had ruined them.

Pleased to see the reports about Dowell from Sheffield United, it seems he's getting praise for things he's traditionally been criticised for so that can only be a good thing.

 

[Pabbers]

I don't think it's worrying, just reflective of the challenge that breaking through at the top end of the Premier League represents. I remember the year Villa went down and their squad was littered with young players who were distinctly average. You can't fill your squad with them through sentiment.

Villa went down because the senior players were not good enough and had zero fight, and let them down completely.