Cycling thread

how many grand tours or classics or even track events do sky show?

Why?

They don't cover cycling other than on their news channel but he's talking about their almost unprecedented investment in the team and sport over a prolonged period and ownership of a cycling team that compete in all the tours.

The huge detrimental effect of it ending and all the possible consequences perhaps aren't fully appreciated by everyone.

By the terms usually used for cycling it's an absolutely monumental amount of cash that is about to leave the sport and that can have knock on effects for the potential future sponsorship of all teams as well as the likely exposure of the sport to parts of the general populace it never before reached.

Popularity in non traditional nations could also in time fade, generally there are a multitude of detrimental effects that may make the aggregate effect very negative for all.
 
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Why?

They don't cover cycling other than on their news channel but he's talking about their almost unprecedented investment in the team and sport over a prolonged period and ownership of a cycling team that compete in all the tours.

The huge detrimental effect of it ending and all the possible consequences perhaps aren't fully appreciated by everyone.

By the terms usually used for cycling it's an absolutely monumental amount of cash that is about to leave the sport and that can have knock on effects for the potential future sponsorship of all teams as well as the likely exposure of the sport to parts of the general populace it never before reached.

Popularity in non traditional nations could also in time fade, generally there are a multitude of detrimental effects that may make the aggregate effect very negative for all.
There's your why? what exposure? They have neither bid to show nor invested in cycling to gain exposure for the sport, the money starts and ends with their own team and riders. As said previously this isn't some kind of philanthropy for the benefit of cycling and there is no trickle down effect from the money they put in to monopolise the grand tour through overwhelming investment in themselves. They could fold completely tomorrow and nothing would change in the grand scheme of things.
 
I do believe he was being sarcastic :)



This video was posted on YouTube in February 2018 at the launch of Team Wiggins, today's or at least these recent comments are POST the announcement, and comment specifically on that money going out of the sport.

Wiggins has been on record many times with his views on sky and his real misgivings, today is the first time he's commented on their total withdrawal.

There is a very distinctive difference as previously there was no immediate prospect of such a withdrawal even if we knew it wouldn't continue for ever.
 
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There's your why? what exposure? They have neither bid to show nor invested in cycling to gain exposure for the sport, the money starts and ends with their own team and riders. As said previously this isn't some kind of philanthropy for the benefit of cycling and there is no trickle down effect from the money they put in to monopolise the grand tour through overwhelming investment in themselves. They could fold completely tomorrow and nothing would change in the grand scheme of things.


There's your why, really ????

It has developed interest and spread the sport and therefore increased exposure, Wiggins often seen as an arch critic is obviously of that opinion too, it will have knock on effects for the whole sport and its spread beyond the boundaries of its traditional base.

I have posted his comnents not to change minds especially where their views are so entrenched but to show his opinion post their withdrawal.
 
Why?

They don't cover cycling other than on their news channel but he's talking about their almost unprecedented investment in the team and sport over a prolonged period and ownership of a cycling team that compete in all the tours.

The huge detrimental effect of it ending and all the possible consequences perhaps aren't fully appreciated by everyone.

By the terms usually used for cycling it's an absolutely monumental amount of cash that is about to leave the sport and that can have knock on effects for the potential future sponsorship of all teams as well as the likely exposure of the sport to parts of the general populace it never before reached.

Popularity in non traditional nations could also in time fade, generally there are a multitude of detrimental effects that may make the aggregate effect very negative for all.

Sky doing well has brought people into the sport in that there is a greater interest in their riders fortunes when so many have recently won the tours, the fact sky don't broadcast the tours is neither here nor there when other free to air channels do so.

Its easy to watch you don't need sky.
 

There's your why? what exposure? They have neither bid to show nor invested in cycling to gain exposure for the sport, the money starts and ends with their own team and riders. As said previously this isn't some kind of philanthropy for the benefit of cycling and there is no trickle down effect from the money they put in to monopolise the grand tour through overwhelming investment in themselves. They could fold completely tomorrow and nothing would change in the grand scheme of things.
Why do they sponsor cycling do you think? I wouldn't claim to understand advertising / sponsorship, but it's hard to equate sponsoring a GT cycling team with their business of selling cable telly subscriptions (if this is in fact their core business).
 
There's your why? what exposure? They have neither bid to show nor invested in cycling to gain exposure for the sport, the money starts and ends with their own team and riders. As said previously this isn't some kind of philanthropy for the benefit of cycling and there is no trickle down effect from the money they put in to monopolise the grand tour through overwhelming investment in themselves. They could fold completely tomorrow and nothing would change in the grand scheme of things.


Highlighting just a fraction of a sentence to take out the meaning isn't very clever either.
 
There's your why, really ????

It has developed interest and spread the sport and therefore increased exposure, Wiggins often seen as an arch critic is obviously of that opinion too, it will have knock on effects for the whole sport and its spread beyond the boundaries of its traditional base.

I have posted his comnents not to change minds especially where their views are so entrenched but to show his opinion post their withdrawal.
It's a perfectly reasonable question, despite the multiple question marks posted to highlight what you think of my opinion, thanks for that. sky's money and investment starts and ends with their own team, they piggy backed onto the back of british cycling when exposure was already on an upward curve. to suggest sky have increased interest in global or minority countries is doubtful to my mind, I like to hear why that is the case.

As stated above their investment starts and ends with their own team, if they leave it does not effect the other teams budget, it doesn't affect other teams riders wages, they have no TV deals in place and are not responsible for the funding of any of the remaining side. There will be less stuff on sky sports news and the sky riders will have to work a bit harder to win things, I can't see much other difference
 
Why do they sponsor cycling do you think? I wouldn't claim to understand advertising / sponsorship, but it's hard to equate sponsoring a GT cycling team with their business of selling cable telly subscriptions (if this is in fact their core business).
I'd say they have a brand to push that goes some way beyond selling sky boxes, they joined a sport on an upward curve and tried to push that curve to get their name and brand get there, seems like normal sponsorship to me mate. I certainly wouldn't see it as an act of altruism towards the sport
 

It's a perfectly reasonable question, despite the multiple question marks posted to highlight what you think of my opinion, thanks for that. sky's money and investment starts and ends with their own team, they piggy backed onto the back of british cycling when exposure was already on an upward curve. to suggest sky have increased interest in global or minority countries is doubtful to my mind, I like to hear why that is the case.

As stated above their investment starts and ends with their own team, if they leave it does not effect the other teams budget, it doesn't affect other teams riders wages, they have no TV deals in place and are not responsible for the funding of any of the remaining side. There will be less stuff on sky sports news and the sky riders will have to work a bit harder to win things, I can't see much other difference

The interest and exposure does increase with home success in any sport not just cycling - road cycling in Britain did increase in popularity as more were following 'our' success, especially in the so called blue riband TdF. Team Sky's achievements did reach previously undreamt of heights and was truly remarkable even allowing for the gigantic cash sums involved. Virtually all of this was due to the project Sky launched in creating and running their team over such a prolonged period.

Any massive injection of cash into almost any sport, even if targeted only on a specific team or area will turn heads and inevitably result in a wider watching audience, especially if it's accompanied by overwhelming success.

As Sky is based in London and has had many British or British qualified riders within their ranks then the effects are exaggerated in this country. Sponsors are attracted to any sport getting more general media coverage in the non cycling outlets, increasing the interested base and potential viewers does attract sponsors in. There is a ripple effect however specific the investment.

The question marks were to emphasise how I really didn't follow your statement

"There's your why"

accompanied by highlighting

the likely exposure of the sport

From the sentence ending

......as the likely exposure of the sport to parts of the general populace it never before reached.

The part of that which gave the sentence its meaning was the places where it increased exposure so by highlighted only a selected part accompanied by

'There's your answer'

It both changed the emphasis and meaning and wasn't an answer at all

it wasn't meant as condescending but to show how much i questioned such selective highlighting.
 
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Just to note that in the 4 years from 2012 to 2016, membership of British cycling went from 50,000 to 125,000, with the number racing doubling in the same period, as have the number of cycling clubs. You can also throw in the London Classic and Tour de Yorkshire to sit alongside the more established Tour of Britain, plus the huge growth in sportives in that time.

This has also extended to cycling in general, as the numbers for London reveal

cycling-statistics-11b.png


Sure, that isn't purely down to Sky's sponsorship, and I don't think anyone would claim it is. It might not even be a large part, who knows? It's probably been a factor though. It's worth noting that British Cycling themselves say this however:

  • Since 2009, in partnership with Sky, British Cycling has inspired over 1.7 million people to cycle regularly. That’s enough to fill almost 20 Wembley Stadiums.
 
Just to note that in the 4 years from 2012 to 2016, membership of British cycling went from 50,000 to 125,000, with the number racing doubling in the same period, as have the number of cycling clubs. You can also throw in the London Classic and Tour de Yorkshire to sit alongside the more established Tour of Britain, plus the huge growth in sportives in that time.

This has also extended to cycling in general, as the numbers for London reveal

cycling-statistics-11b.png


Sure, that isn't purely down to Sky's sponsorship, and I don't think anyone would claim it is. It might not even be a large part, who knows? It's probably been a factor though. It's worth noting that British Cycling themselves say this however:

  • Since 2009, in partnership with Sky, British Cycling has inspired over 1.7 million people to cycle regularly. That’s enough to fill almost 20 Wembley Stadiums.
It definitely isn't as the curve was already an upward one, they jumped on an upward trend for their own benefit, there may have some residual benefits from that, but they will be isolated to the UK as far as I can tell.
 
The Giro is always the better race, isn't it?

Yes, and it certainly won't change since ASO is complacent. They're clinging to the past too much.

I posted this earlier, but I think the only rider Sky have signed that was in the CQ top 50 rankings was Kwia. It's far more common for them to sign young riders or those not really wanted by their team. Of the 2018 Tour roster, for instance, Froome was not highly thought of at Barloworld, Bernal was a young and unproven rider, Castroviejo was a very good time trial rider but not world class, Kwia we've discussed, Moscon was a young hopeful who turned pro with Sky, Poels had done nothing really before hand, and was 21st and 38th in GTs the year before he signed for Sky, Rowe came through at Sky, whilst Thomas largely did too.

If you look at their wider roster, the two Henaos turned pro with Sky, as did Stannard, Puccio, Basso et al. I'd hardly say Kiri or Ellisonde were superstars prior to joining. Apart from Kwia, probably the most star like rider they've signed is van Baarle, and he's for the classics squad.

Their approach in recent years has been to take young riders and improve them. They haven't signed a super star since Cavendish.

Come on mate, almost all of those riders (except Froome himself) were/are known to be great/exceptional talents.

Let's take Poels for example; he had done plenty beforehand to display his talent- he was known and touted to be the biggest Dutch climbing talent since somewhere around 2008. Until 2012 his results were very good for a rider of his age. Then came an extremely bad fall. Not a standard run of the mill fall: he ruptured his spleen, ruptured a kidney, bruised a lung, broke a couple of ribs all in one fall (spent quite a long time in the hospital for all that) - that's potentially career ending; they made a documentary about his revalidation process (it's on youtube I think -; on top of that his father died in the same year etc...). His time with Quickstep, was very successful considering all he had been through; they didn't want to get rid of him (Sky just offered more). The same with Bernal etc; you could hear Michel Wuyts etc, harping on about their gloriousness for ages, even before they were riding for Sky (he was audibly disappointed when he announced they had signed him). They are/were literally in the market for all the greatest talents around; they offered Evenepoel crazy amounts of money (but later denied it when he chose another team, but there were proofs etc...), they did the same (successfully) with Sosa etc... It's not a novel approach; it's scouting coupled with offering very big amounts of money. A large part is just letting them age. Mind you they've done some things I thought to be impossible, like winning a GT with Thomas, he was a very big talent, what he did on the track was astonishing and all that, even so I didn't think he could successfully win a GT. So credit there.

Quickstep is also very successful in discovering the young talents (and winning with them); and most of the time they leave after a couple of seasons and they go on to earn more money and then they dig up new ones. And there are other teams who do similar on a smaller scale.

So his comments today about Sky on talkSport are what?

He's right; he is saying the exact same thing as the sport economist. Their loss doesn't support the development of cycling as a global sport, but it will probably create a more level playing field and more attractive racing. Or, the last part, in his words, " the racing may be better". I also think he was talking mainly about cycling in the U.K.; but I was only able to listen to the 3 minutes short version (still don't think he likes Sky, he's just a good annalist). I'm also not denying their importance for British cycling, but it doesn't translate in a positive manner on a wider scale.

For me the most important thing is attractive racing; not the global interest- off course not on the levels like CX (there globalisation is desperately needed). Entertain me. I would be equally displeased if some other similar super team pops up.

Why do they sponsor cycling do you think? I wouldn't claim to understand advertising / sponsorship, but it's hard to equate sponsoring a GT cycling team with their business of selling cable telly subscriptions (if this is in fact their core business).

From a business and marketing pov it makes little sense to support a cycling team in a non-traditional country (with Sky I think one of the reasons was that one of the sons of Murdoch is a big cycling fan and he lost his seat with the Comcast take-over + they have more than achieved their original objectives); I don't agree with Tinkov a lot but he was right when he said that sponsoring cycling is the equivalent of throwing money in a bottomless pit with little return; they can make changes that will help but that will take a long time...

How's your CX season going?
 
Come on mate, almost all of those riders (except Froome himself) were/are known to be great/exceptional talents.

Let's take Poels for example; he had done plenty beforehand to display his talent- he was known and touted to be the biggest Dutch climbing talent since somewhere around 2008. Until 2012 his results were very good for a rider of his age. Then came an extremely bad fall. Not a standard run of the mill fall: he ruptured his spleen, ruptured a kidney, bruised a lung, broke a couple of ribs all in one fall (spent quite a long time in the hospital for all that) - that's potentially career ending; they made a documentary about his revalidation process (it's on youtube I think -; on top of that his father died in the same year etc...). His time with Quickstep, was very successful considering all he had been through; they didn't want to get rid of him (Sky just offered more). The same with Bernal etc; you could hear Michel Wuyts etc, harping on about their gloriousness for ages, even before they were riding for Sky (he was audibly disappointed when he announced they had signed him). They are/were literally in the market for all the greatest talents around; they offered Evenepoel crazy amounts of money (but later denied it when he chose another team, but there were proofs etc...), they did the same (successfully) with Sosa etc... It's not a novel approach; it's scouting coupled with offering very big amounts of money. A large part is just letting them age. Mind you they've done some things I thought to be impossible, like winning a GT with Thomas, he was a very big talent, what he did on the track was astonishing and all that, even so I didn't think he could successfully win a GT. So credit there.

Quickstep is also very successful in discovering the young talents (and winning with them); and most of the time they leave after a couple of seasons and they go on to earn more money and then they dig up new ones. And there are other teams who do similar on a smaller scale.

i wouldn't argue that the sign up hot young talent, but the accusation is that their financial clout has allowed them to buy up the best talent in the world. As we can see with football, there's a big difference between buying established talent and buying young talent that still needs developing. The fact that few riders have left Sky and done better suggests it's a decent environment for developing as a rider. Just as if you were a young classics rider you'd want to go to Quikstep, I imagine if you were a young GT rider, Sky would be your team of choice.
 

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