2018/19 Kieran Dowell

[mightymoyes]

..be interesting what Silva truly thinks of him. He could simply be a very useful player to have in your squad.

i found it interesting that hes never once been linked with a loan move this summer

 

[johnnydawg68]

The first manager you can think of for improving attacking players is Eddie Howe?

We just played them and he was fresh on my mind. Feel free to substitute Pep or anyone else.

 

[johnnydawg68]

You are all sadly trying so hard to see something in the lad that really isnt there.

Mark my words, he will not be making it here, not unless we get relegated anytime soon.

 

[johnnydawg68]

He has considerable ability with the ball. I'd say probably more than even Gylfi. He struggles with structure. There are lots of similarities with Davies in this. He does lots of aspects of the game very well, but struggles in other areas and if you were a manager you'd probably question if you could rely on him. Compared to say Kenny, or Beni or Calvert Lewin, who may have less bits of brilliance but ultimately you could put them in and know what you were going to get.

What gives me grounds for optimism though is that you have seen a big improvement at some of the simple things in Davies over a 2 month period. He is tackling and intercepting much more, making more passes and looking calmer. This is not down to him trying harder (as I always felt he tried) but it's about being coached how to position yourself to be in the optimal position to affect the game.

That same coaching is likely to be happening for Dowell too. He needs that as well. I think he's a willing lad, clearly got a great attitude and is willing to learn. There's a difference between being unwilling and unable. I think he probably needs the game broken down for him, in terms of structure. This is how you get back into shape. This is when you press. This is what you do when your partner presses etc. With the ball he is better, but it's as much about where you pick the ball up and put yourself in a position where you can get the ball regularly. That will come more easily to Dowell. He's a lad, who if he reaches his peak will have the game going through him.

For me he was never going to get this coaching on loan. The Championship is a physical league on the whole. There's a lot of % play. A lad like Dowell is currently not very suited to it. Yes it toughens him up a bit, and I think he benefitted from that for 6 months but ideally would have come back last season in January. You also have enormous short termism in the league. The nature of parachute payments causes that. Sides gamble to get back up. None of it leads to a manager taking the time to improve a loan player who will then improve to a level they cannot afford him.

6 months intensive training is what Dowell needs (and Davies). Every day working with top players. For Dowell every day seeing how hard Sigurdsson works without the ball. Seeing him get every drop of ability out. Working on shape etc. Silva seems in that mould. If he's introduced slowly and we see him more in the 2nd half of the season, thats good for me. He can "make his mistakes" on the training pitch and hopefully come with the end product at the second half of the season. He will never have a better chance to become a Premier League player, and in honesty if he doesn't take it that will probably be it for him. However early signs last night and flashes in pre season (where he looks to improved from again) are very promising.

As with all the young players, give them time. Hopefully the first team lads keep them out and make them work to get in for as long as possible.

Required reading ^^^^^^^^^

 

[johnnydawg68]

I didn’t go to the game, nor seen any highlights, but the comments I’m reading here are a little underwhelming.

Rotherham are a play-off promoted Championship team that made almost as many changes as us last night.

I don’t want to read “started off slow, got into it more second half”.

This kid is one of the most gifted players in the entire squad and was playing in central midfield last night. Starting slow? Pfft.

He should be demanding the ball absolutely everywhere, looking constantly for it when we don’t have it & genuinely trying to dominate a game.

He’s a complete waste of talent right now IMO.

Mate he was played out of position in a team with 12 other attacking options in a side that was cobbled together and you expect him to be Iniesta?

 

[johnnydawg68]

i found it interesting that hes never once been linked with a loan move this summer

I think that tells you all you need to know. Silva clearly wants to work with the lad. I'll bet you Brands has a say in this too.

 

[Lanolin]

I didn’t go to the game, nor seen any highlights, but the comments I’m reading here are a little underwhelming.

Rotherham are a play-off promoted Championship team that made almost as many changes as us last night.

I don’t want to read “started off slow, got into it more second half”.

This kid is one of the most gifted players in the entire squad and was playing in central midfield last night. Starting slow? Pfft.

He should be demanding the ball absolutely everywhere, looking constantly for it when we don’t have it & genuinely trying to dominate a game.

He’s a complete waste of talent right now IMO.

Bit harsh I think.

I've been critical of him in the past and to be honest i'm not sure he's really cut out for the rough and tumble nature of PL football, but last night he was playing in an unfamiliar role in a patched up side that had never really played together before (and never will again). From what I could see, he wasn't really tasked with dominating the game, he was asked to play a sort of Osman type role as a continuity player, just moving the ball round and linking up with the players ahead of him. I was more impressed with him doing that than I have been seeing him further up the pitch, where he strikes me as a poor man's Le Tissier, strutting round doing flicks and nutmegs but spending 90% of the game watching it go on around him. Last night he looked more disciplined and as if he cared more about being effective for the team than about looking good himself. A positive step in my eyes.

 

[Eggs]

i found it interesting that hes never once been linked with a loan move this summer

..if reports are true, I don’t think he was up for it. He only had a year on his contract and wouldn’t have renewed had he gone on loan.

 

[zook]

He's got great technical ability, you don't really panic when the ball's at his feet but his movement isn't the best, he needs a bit more aggression about his play and more of that drive to get possession in dangerous areas so he can pick a pass or take a shot

 

[davek]

He has considerable ability with the ball. I'd say probably more than even Gylfi. He struggles with structure. There are lots of similarities with Davies in this. He does lots of aspects of the game very well, but struggles in other areas and if you were a manager you'd probably question if you could rely on him. Compared to say Kenny, or Beni or Calvert Lewin, who may have less bits of brilliance but ultimately you could put them in and know what you were going to get.

What gives me grounds for optimism though is that you have seen a big improvement at some of the simple things in Davies over a 2 month period. He is tackling and intercepting much more, making more passes and looking calmer. This is not down to him trying harder (as I always felt he tried) but it's about being coached how to position yourself to be in the optimal position to affect the game.

That same coaching is likely to be happening for Dowell too. He needs that as well. I think he's a willing lad, clearly got a great attitude and is willing to learn. There's a difference between being unwilling and unable. I think he probably needs the game broken down for him, in terms of structure. This is how you get back into shape. This is when you press. This is what you do when your partner presses etc. With the ball he is better, but it's as much about where you pick the ball up and put yourself in a position where you can get the ball regularly. That will come more easily to Dowell. He's a lad, who if he reaches his peak will have the game going through him.

For me he was never going to get this coaching on loan. The Championship is a physical league on the whole. There's a lot of % play. A lad like Dowell is currently not very suited to it. Yes it toughens him up a bit, and I think he benefitted from that for 6 months but ideally would have come back last season in January. You also have enormous short termism in the league. The nature of parachute payments causes that. Sides gamble to get back up. None of it leads to a manager taking the time to improve a loan player who will then improve to a level they cannot afford him.

6 months intensive training is what Dowell needs (and Davies). Every day working with top players. For Dowell every day seeing how hard Sigurdsson works without the ball. Seeing him get every drop of ability out. Working on shape etc. Silva seems in that mould. If he's introduced slowly and we see him more in the 2nd half of the season, thats good for me. He can "make his mistakes" on the training pitch and hopefully come with the end product at the second half of the season. He will never have a better chance to become a Premier League player, and in honesty if he doesn't take it that will probably be it for him. However early signs last night and flashes in pre season (where he looks to improved from again) are very promising.

As with all the young players, give them time. Hopefully the first team lads keep them out and make them work to get in for as long as possible.

Great post mate. I think his time with Silva will vastly improve him. He has all the technique in the world, so that's something his manager doesn't have to worry about, and it's clear from what he's said that Silva rates the lad highly.

I must say (and as a big fan of the lad's ability) the way he would improve immeasurably is to assert himself a lot more and become a dominant player willing to hunt down opponents carrying the ball and stripping them of it. Just generally be more aggressive.

That said, I think maybe one reason he doesn't do that is that he's instinctive enough to know that if you do get sucked into that type of game it leaves you less space to receive the ball in - and I think that's how he likes it: to be as unencumbered by the opposition as is possible when in possession in order to pick his pass / make his surge.

Silva's task, as I see it, is to get the balance right: to make sure that Dowell knows which tactic is correct within a game - when to get in the face of opponents and when to stand off to receive. That'll be determined by how the flow of the game is going and what the strength of opposition is.

 

[catcherintherye]

Great post mate. I think his time with Silva will vastly improve him. He has all the technique in the world, so that's something his manager doesn't have to worry about, and it's clear from what he's said that Silva rates the lad highly.

I must say (and as a big fan of the lad's ability) the way he would improve immeasurably is to assert himself a lot more and become a dominant player willing to hunt down opponents carrying the ball and stripping them of it. Just generally be more aggressive.

That said, I think maybe one reason he doesn't do that is that he's instinctive enough to know that if you do get sucked into that type of game it leaves you less space to receive the ball in - and I think that's how he likes it: to be as unencumbered by the opposition as is possible when in possession in order to pick his pass / make his surge.

Silva's task, as I see it, is to get the balance right: to make sure that Dowell knows which tactic is correct within a game - when to get in the face of opponents and when to stand off to receive. That'll be determined by how the flow of the game is going and what the strength of opposition is.

Thanks Dave and I agree with a lot of that.

I would say that teaching someone creativity, vision and technique to strike a ball as he does with his left foot is a lot harder than teaching someone how to recover defensive shape or how to press to a solid level. There will be players who excel in this (McCarthy and Sigurdsson are both very good at it). He runs with his head up as well which is a big plus. I think Silva can see these attributes and the fact he's signed a Contract suggest he feels quite content with his lot currently (which is very little game time). I suspect it means he values the training he's getting.

On what he needs to improve it's a bit of the Ozil V De Bruyne paradigm. He always reminded of Ozil from a teenager and I'm on record as saying as much. De Bruyne a similar player has been a revelation because he's dropped deeper and been able to dictate the flow of a game far more as you generally would when you get the ball deeper. I am not sure if he will go forward and have a focus on being more of a 10, and be judged on assists and goals more, or whether it is better for him to drop deeper and be a player who can dictate the flow of games before linking up. He would need to increase hit fitness levels to do this. I throw De Bruyne in, as a poster here said he resembled the playing profile of De Bruyne very closely. I'd like to see Silva give him a clear goal to focus on and move him in that direction.

I hope it comes off for him. The vision he has, weight of pass and striking power few possess. He is getting to an age and physicality where he can be trained to do enough on the defensive side of the game. He offers the option of making many chances though. A player like Lukaku would have loved to play with him. It's strange though, Osman always went a bit unappreciated and I think Dowell does to as culturally we are not programmed to rate such style of players.

 

[yakublue]

He has considerable ability with the ball. I'd say probably more than even Gylfi. He struggles with structure. There are lots of similarities with Davies in this. He does lots of aspects of the game very well, but struggles in other areas and if you were a manager you'd probably question if you could rely on him. Compared to say Kenny, or Beni or Calvert Lewin, who may have less bits of brilliance but ultimately you could put them in and know what you were going to get.

What gives me grounds for optimism though is that you have seen a big improvement at some of the simple things in Davies over a 2 month period. He is tackling and intercepting much more, making more passes and looking calmer. This is not down to him trying harder (as I always felt he tried) but it's about being coached how to position yourself to be in the optimal position to affect the game.

That same coaching is likely to be happening for Dowell too. He needs that as well. I think he's a willing lad, clearly got a great attitude and is willing to learn. There's a difference between being unwilling and unable. I think he probably needs the game broken down for him, in terms of structure. This is how you get back into shape. This is when you press. This is what you do when your partner presses etc. With the ball he is better, but it's as much about where you pick the ball up and put yourself in a position where you can get the ball regularly. That will come more easily to Dowell. He's a lad, who if he reaches his peak will have the game going through him.

For me he was never going to get this coaching on loan. The Championship is a physical league on the whole. There's a lot of % play. A lad like Dowell is currently not very suited to it. Yes it toughens him up a bit, and I think he benefitted from that for 6 months but ideally would have come back last season in January. You also have enormous short termism in the league. The nature of parachute payments causes that. Sides gamble to get back up. None of it leads to a manager taking the time to improve a loan player who will then improve to a level they cannot afford him.

6 months intensive training is what Dowell needs (and Davies). Every day working with top players. For Dowell every day seeing how hard Sigurdsson works without the ball. Seeing him get every drop of ability out. Working on shape etc. Silva seems in that mould. If he's introduced slowly and we see him more in the 2nd half of the season, thats good for me. He can "make his mistakes" on the training pitch and hopefully come with the end product at the second half of the season. He will never have a better chance to become a Premier League player, and in honesty if he doesn't take it that will probably be it for him. However early signs last night and flashes in pre season (where he looks to improved from again) are very promising.

As with all the young players, give them time. Hopefully the first team lads keep them out and make them work to get in for as long as possible.

Totally agree about the structure point, and the similarity to Davies in this. Both of them have so much talent but need more discipline and positional sense. The biggest difference between having Davies or Schneiderlin on the pitch is that the latter has a lot of positional discipline and gives the team more shape. Davies does a lot of good things but contributes to the team becoming more frantic and shapeless. You can see the same problem with Dowell. It feels like such a simple problem to solve but, for players in their positions, it's so important.

 

[catcherintherye]

Totally agree about the structure point, and the similarity to Davies in this. Both of them have so much talent but need more discipline and positional sense. The biggest difference between having Davies or Schneiderlin on the pitch is that the latter has a lot of positional discipline and gives the team more shape. Davies does a lot of good things but contributes to the team becoming more frantic and shapeless. You can see the same problem with Dowell. It feels like such a simple problem to solve but, for players in their positions, it's so important.

Great post that mate.

I think most people can see Davies has a lot more to his game than Schneiderlin. He can do things Schneiderlin can't. He almost has more dimensions.

When Schneiderlin plays well though (and is basically interested) he knows his game and can do a particular singular job more effectively than Davies. He has the age, experience and maturity to know his game and doesn't go too far from that.

Davies needs to learn to be a bit more structured to then allow his all round game to flourish.

 

[orly]

Great post that mate.

I think most people can see Davies has a lot more to his game than Schneiderlin. He can do things Schneiderlin can't. He almost has more dimensions.

When Schneiderlin plays well though (and is basically interested) he knows his game and can do a particular singular job more effectively than Davies. He has the age, experience and maturity to know his game and doesn't go too far from that.

Davies needs to learn to be a bit more structured to then allow his all round game to flourish.

More dimensions lol

He has the same as the rest of us!

I agree more with the parallels of Davies with a transcendent being than those comparing him with Pienaar though

 

[Moomin]

More dimensions lol

He has the same as the rest of us!

I agree more with the parallels of Davies with a transcendent being than those comparing him with Pienaar though