ECHO Comment: "Fears of Witch-hunt Against Liverpool FC"

[catcherintherye]

Lol the narrative on here about "Lucky Liverpool" is as blinkered as the RAWK fans you mock. Yes, Liverpool have had some luck with decisions against City & last night, but there's no mention of the 2 penalties Roma got awarded which were never penalties in a million years, the blatant push on Mane which could have been a pen in the first half, plus the luckiest own goal you've ever seen which gave the tie a more even complexion. Roma were never in the tie from 5-0 down.

Talk of Everton & Stoke keeping Liverpool quiet is a little misleading, as neither match had a full strength Liverpool side. Look to Man Utd if you want to use that narrative.

Madrid will rightly be favourites for the final, but both teams have strong attacks and suspect defences. The scoreline could pretty much be anything.

Anyways, enjoy the next 3 weeks of media hype of Klopp, Salah & co, chaps.

I haven't watched any of your guys games really, which is as much down to life and work being busy but probably a little bit of a choice on my part. It's much easier to not engross myself. Maybe if you slip back to the Hodgson/Dalglish days I'll give you a watch again, it was much more fun then!

From what I've seen though, I'm not sure you have been that lucky in terms of decisions. You cruised through against Porto and while City didn't get the decisions I always fancied Liverpool to score at the Etihad and that would have been enough. I haven't seen Roma so can't comment.

I think where you have been a bit fortunate is the draws. Bayern, PSG, Real Madrid and Barca are the 4 best teams in the competition and I'd favour all of them over a two legged tie against Liverpool. I think you have too many mistakes in your side, which would be exposed over two legs. However in a final you are a match for any of them and have good players executing a game plan which is very difficult to play against.

Unlike you, I do think the Stoke/Everton thing is fair. I don't get the "weakened team" stuff. Against Everton it was almost your strongest 14 who were involved in the game who were fit and available. Robertson was the only exception as Salah was injured. Yes the top players didn't play 90 minutes, but they were all involved and in honesty were quite underwhelming.

Everton under Allardyce and Stoke are appalling this season, but had an appropriate game plan for playing away to Liverpool. I understand why Pep didn't adopt this. Having annihilated you 5-0 earlier in the season, and having the stand out team in the league he isn't going to change his plan. it was poor execution. I'm amazed by Roma though. They played into Liverpool's hands and it probably cost them the tie. Had they have focussed on being strong defensively they may have got a 2-1/2-2 defeat with a big chance in Rome.

My take on it is you have a good chance in the final. Real Madrid have a superb experience of winning finals, and Liverpool (and Klopp) have a record of bottling finals recently. However outside of that I think the game is quite even. The key for Liverpool is to not freeze on the day. If they can replicate the form they showed against Porto, City and the first leg of Roma I think you stand a great chance of winning and this Madrid team are a bit older and I'm not sure have the legs to cope.

 

[Skamp]

Madrid are favourites and are the stronger team pound for pound, make no mistake. This is a match though, that could end up virtually any score and Liverpool are capable of beaten any side in a one-off situation. I see Madrid as 1/2 favourites.

 

[macdog]

I've never predicted anything yet about them that didn't come true.

Can you predict relegation for them please?

 

[macdog]

I've never predicted anything yet about them that didn't come true.

Can you predict relegation for them please?

 

[catcherintherye]

Madrid are favourites and are the stronger team pound for pound, make no mistake. This is a match though, that could end up virtually any score and Liverpool are capable of beaten any side in a one-off situation. I see Madrid as 1/2 favourites.

I think that is centrally down to experience though isn't it, as opposed to quality of the two teams.

P.s has a quick browse of RAWK and I'm still getting mentions there. You're lot are a bit obsessed aren't they mate! Have they not got anything better to do with their lives? Revelling in enjoying a European final- nah I'll keep bitterly obsessing about a lad that support Everton. Utter cranks. No matter what they win, I'll be glad I'm not some deranged obsessive stalker type weirdo

 

[Skamp]

I haven't watched any of your guys games really, which is as much down to life and work being busy but probably a little bit of a choice on my part. It's much easier to not engross myself. Maybe if you slip back to the Hodgson/Dalglish days I'll give you a watch again, it was much more fun then!

From what I've seen though, I'm not sure you have been that lucky in terms of decisions. You cruised through against Porto and while City didn't get the decisions I always fancied Liverpool to score at the Etihad and that would have been enough. I haven't seen Roma so can't comment.

I think where you have been a bit fortunate is the draws. Bayern, PSG, Real Madrid and Barca are the 4 best teams in the competition and I'd favour all of them over a two legged tie against Liverpool. I think you have too many mistakes in your side, which would be exposed over two legs. However in a final you are a match for any of them and have good players executing a game plan which is very difficult to play against.

Unlike you, I do think the Stoke/Everton thing is fair. I don't get the "weakened team" stuff. Against Everton it was almost your strongest 14 who were involved in the game who were fit and available. Robertson was the only exception as Salah was injured. Yes the top players didn't play 90 minutes, but they were all involved and in honesty were quite underwhelming.

Everton under Allardyce and Stoke are appalling this season, but had an appropriate game plan for playing away to Liverpool. I understand why Pep didn't adopt this. Having annihilated you 5-0 earlier in the season, and having the stand out team in the league he isn't going to change his plan. it was poor execution. I'm amazed by Roma though. They played into Liverpool's hands and it probably cost them the tie. Had they have focussed on being strong defensively they may have got a 2-1/2-2 defeat with a big chance in Rome.

My take on it is you have a good chance in the final. Real Madrid have a superb experience of winning finals, and Liverpool (and Klopp) have a record of bottling finals recently. However outside of that I think the game is quite even. The key for Liverpool is to not freeze on the day. If they can replicate the form they showed against Porto, City and the first leg of Roma I think you stand a great chance of winning and this Madrid team are a bit older and I'm not sure have the legs to cope.

Good post and points made. My view to the Stoke/Everton issue is that Liverpool have clearly targeted the CL in recent weeks as top 4 was close to being insured, hence key players were rested or unavailable (4 from each match, I think). Without all the front 3 playing, Liverpool can be underwhelming and both matches were poor performances from a red perspective. Not sure either result was as much to do with how Everton/Stoke played tactically as opposed to what Liverpool didn't/couldn't do.

Agree about Roma; playing a high line against the pace up front, with slowish defenders, is Kamikaze at best and Liverpool took full advantage in the first leg. From 5-0 up in the tie, despite any perceived decisions going Liverpool's way, Roma never really threatened to get back into it.

I'm glad there's a couple of weeks from the season end to the CL final, because Liverpool have faded badly in the latter stages of a number of matches recently, conceding 2 late goals in both Roma matches (albeit with 2 harsh penalties) and 2 late goals against WBA. Think the rest period could help Liverpool with energy levels for the final, albeit I expect Madrid to come out on top. Could well be a 3-2, 4-3 kind of result though.

 

[Skamp]

I think that is centrally down to experience though isn't it, as opposed to quality of the two teams.

P.s has a quick browse of RAWK and I'm still getting mentions there. You're lot are a bit obsessed aren't they mate! Have they not got anything better to do with their lives? Revelling in enjoying a European final- nah I'll keep bitterly obsessing about a lad that support Everton. Utter cranks. No matter what they win, I'll be glad I'm not some deranged obsessive stalker type weirdo

Think it's a bit of both; Madrid, like Liverpool are strong up top, but have better midfield than Liverpool and a better keeper. Both defences can be got at.

As for RAWK, I don't go on there (I'm a member of a slighty more balanced LFC forum, I think!!), as their reputation is largely deserved. However, their obsession is maybe partly mirrored on this thread, don't you think?

 

[catcherintherye]

Think it's a bit of both; Madrid, like Liverpool are strong up top, but have better midfield than Liverpool and a better keeper. Both defences can be got at.

As for RAWK, I don't go on there (I'm a member of a slighty more balanced LFC forum, I think!!), as their reputation is largely deserved. However, their obsession is maybe partly mirrored on this thread, don't you think?

Yea they seem an odd bunch of largely Tory voters to me. I'm not sure, there is certainly stupidity on both threads, but I can't get over the obsession. Barring a fella who came on here and lied about Hillsborough and bragged about in on their, there is very little mention of posters on that site here. I feel a bit flattered they are still mentioning me despite often going months without posting on the thread, but as I say it seems the behaviour of stalkers and does make me feel a bit uneasy for my immediate family! Strange bunch, I think you're sensible to avoid it mate, it's all a bit unhinged.

 

[catcherintherye]

Good post and points made. My view to the Stoke/Everton issue is that Liverpool have clearly targeted the CL in recent weeks as top 4 was close to being insured, hence key players were rested or unavailable (4 from each match, I think). Without all the front 3 playing, Liverpool can be underwhelming and both matches were poor performances from a red perspective. Not sure either result was as much to do with how Everton/Stoke played tactically as opposed to what Liverpool didn't/couldn't do.

Agree about Roma; playing a high line against the pace up front, with slowish defenders, is Kamikaze at best and Liverpool took full advantage in the first leg. From 5-0 up in the tie, despite any perceived decisions going Liverpool's way, Roma never really threatened to get back into it.

I'm glad there's a couple of weeks from the season end to the CL final, because Liverpool have faded badly in the latter stages of a number of matches recently, conceding 2 late goals in both Roma matches (albeit with 2 harsh penalties) and 2 late goals against WBA. Think the rest period could help Liverpool with energy levels for the final, albeit I expect Madrid to come out on top. Could well be a 3-2, 4-3 kind of result though.

Yes without doubt, that the midweek element has certainly helped both of those teams. It surprises me they didn't Allardyce it though. Benitez was a master of it, he'd go to play for a 0-0 or even a 1-0 in the away leg. Mourinho has done it very well as well. It's not in vogue as much now mind.

I think you are probably struggling a bit and the break is a good point. I think most of it is played in the head though. I don't think Liverpool have anything to fear, but you've made a bit of a habit of stumbling on the last hurdle. One thing with that Real Madrid team is they are mentally strong. It will be a good match, though I'm in Austria (booked well before but came in handy now!) so will be happy listening to Mozart and eating Schnitzel!

 

[PITA]

Malfosse - I am a "RS" yet lol. Not covert and not pretending to be an Evertonian or Manc lol. Was just pointing out that for the decisions that went against Roma in the tie (and there were deffo a few), some went for them also, which everyone on this site seems to not have noticed.

Welcome to the site. I would say that you are correct in terms of decisions for and against. However the harsh penalty that became just about the last kick of the tie had no bearing on the overall result. The Karius and Trent A-A missed incidents were massive in terms of the timing and the fact that there should have been at least one sending off. Still, that’s football.

 

[Skamp]

Yes without doubt, that the midweek element has certainly helped both of those teams. It surprises me they didn't Allardyce it though. Benitez was a master of it, he'd go to play for a 0-0 or even a 1-0 in the away leg. Mourinho has done it very well as well. It's not in vogue as much now mind.

I think you are probably struggling a bit and the break is a good point. I think most of it is played in the head though. I don't think Liverpool have anything to fear, but you've made a bit of a habit of stumbling on the last hurdle. One thing with that Real Madrid team is they are mentally strong. It will be a good match, though I'm in Austria (booked well before but came in handy now!) so will be happy listening to Mozart and eating Schnitzel!

I think it's quite funny the "bottler" label being thrown at Liverpool & Klopp, given that I'm not sure you can bottle it when you're playing against a superior side. The 2 finals Liverpool lost, were City on pens, and coming undone in the second half against Seville, who were winning their 3rd successive Europa (a la Madrid somewhat, maybe?). Some people made Liverpool favourites to beat Seville, but given their track record, not me!

 

[Skamp]

Welcome to the site. I would say that you are correct in terms of decisions for and against. However the harsh penalty that became just about the last kick of the tie had no bearing on the overall result. The Karius and Trent A-A missed incidents were massive in terms of the timing and the fact that there should have been at least one sending off. Still, that’s football.

Agreed, but if the Milner pen had not been given at the end of first leg (would've ended 5-1 and been no hope for Roma) and Mane had been awarded a pen for the push in the back in the 1st half of the second leg, no-one would have been debating the decisions that went against Roma.

My view is the TAA one was 50/50 as it was blasted at him from 3 feet away and he was jumping in front of the attacker and wasn't even looking at the ball when it him. Certainly seen them given but can see why it wasn't. The Karius one was VERY lucky that it was flagged as offside as that could easily have been pen and red, but if the 2 aforementioned pen decisions had gone Liverpool's way (Milner & Mane), they could have been 8-2 up in the tie before that incident took place.

Football fans tend to let their tribal bias blind them to the incidents that don't serve their narrative, by & large though lol.

 

[Skamp]

Yea they seem an odd bunch of largely Tory voters to me. I'm not sure, there is certainly stupidity on both threads, but I can't get over the obsession. Barring a fella who came on here and lied about Hillsborough and bragged about in on their, there is very little mention of posters on that site here. I feel a bit flattered they are still mentioning me despite often going months without posting on the thread, but as I say it seems the behaviour of stalkers and does make me feel a bit uneasy for my immediate family! Strange bunch, I think you're sensible to avoid it mate, it's all a bit unhinged.

Every club has it mental section where certain fans are blinkered and biased against everything that is not their own. City fans think the media and authorities (FA/UEFA) are all in favour of Utd, Utd think they're for City/Liverpool, Liverpool think they're for City/Utd, etc, etc. Just seems that RAWK is where all the Red "beauts" congregate!

 

[maccavennie]

Do Madrid have a better midfield - check
Do they have a better defence - well yes because Ramos, Varane and Marcello would walk into any side
Do they have a better keeper - nope they are both rank average keepers
Do they have a better strike force - rs have a nice balance between the 3 but Madrid have pure matchwinners up top in Ronaldo, Benzema, Bale, Isco, Asensio.

Will it be close? Probably
Should it be close? Nope, Madrid should be pitting them to bed around about 9.10pm after slotting a 4th.

 

[Skamp]

Do Madrid have a better midfield - check
Do they have a better defence - well yes because Ramos, Varane and Marcello would walk into any side
Do they have a better keeper - nope they are both rank average keepers
Do they have a better strike force - rs have a nice balance between the 3 but Madrid have pure matchwinners up top in Ronaldo, Benzema, Bale, Isco, Asensio.

Will it be close? Probably
Should it be close? Nope, Madrid should be pitting them to bed around about 9.10pm after slotting a 4th.

Not sure Madrid's defence is better than Liverpool's if you look at the number of glad they've conceded this year. Marcelo wouldn't walk into any side because of his defensive qualities, he's great at getting it into the box in dangerous areas. But yes, all things being equal, Madrid should prevail.