Holgate Racially Abused By Firmino - The Guardian

[davek]

Dave, you're better than this. By all means run rings round occasional visitors to the site and tie yourself up in knots arguing with people who can't keep up with you, but don't try and tell me that you didn't know we were talking about Rodriguez being charged because you did, and the quotes prove it. Pick your battles David.

Rodriguez was done for both insulting and abusive language AND racist abuse. There is two charges in that FA statement. If they wanted to indicate that it was only a charge of racist abuse they'd have said so.

Look, here's the charges the FA laid at the door of Suarez when he had his run in with Evra:

"It is alleged that Suarez used abusive and/or insulting words and/or behaviour towards Manchester United's Patrice Evra contrary to FA rules. It is further alleged that this included a reference to the ethnic origin and/or colour and/or race of Patrice Evra."

There's no question that Rodriguez falls into that category of double offence, as did Suarez.

We KNOW already that Firmino has transgressed on that first allegation of insulting words - we now wait to see if he's ALSO transgressed on racial abuse grounds.

 

[Lanolin]

Rodriguez was done for both insulting and abusive language AND racist abuse. There is two charges in that FA statement. If they wanted to indicate that it was only a charge of racist abuse they'd have said so.

Look, here's the charges the FA laid at the door of Suarez when he had his run in with Evra:

"It is alleged that Suarez used abusive and/or insulting words and/or behaviour towards Manchester United's Patrice Evra contrary to FA rules. It is further alleged that this included a reference to the ethnic origin and/or colour and/or race of Patrice Evra."

There's no question that Rodriguez falls into that category of double offence as did Suarez.

As I said, the way it is written on the FA statement on Rodriguez - which you referenced as your evidence - clearly suggests it's one charge. I can't tell you for certain that it's one charge because I've only seen that statement, but if it is indeed two charges, the FA need to employ somebody who can write properly, as the wording of the statement clearly only lists one.

The difference is clear in the statement you've provided above, when there were two charges they clearly stated it by splitting them up into distinct sentences, in the Rodriguez one it is simply a charge relating to the racism. The allegation from Bong was that Rodriguez said 'you smell because you're black'. It seems obvious to me that the FA don't think that saying somebody smells is worthy of a charge, so the charge is solely for adding 'because you're black'. This explains why the charge reads 'abusive and/or insulting words including reference to' rather than 'abusive and/or insulting words. It is further alleged...'

This only applies to Rodriguez as that's all I was ever talking about, whether Firmino could face a double charge is another matter.

 

[AsiaAsia82]

I don’t believe Rodriquez is guilty of the racism charge.

 

[Goat]

Rodriguez was done for both insulting and abusive language AND racist abuse. There is two charges in that FA statement. If they wanted to indicate that it was only a charge of racist abuse they'd have said so.

Look, here's the charges the FA laid at the door of Suarez when he had his run in with Evra:

"It is alleged that Suarez used abusive and/or insulting words and/or behaviour towards Manchester United's Patrice Evra contrary to FA rules. It is further alleged that this included a reference to the ethnic origin and/or colour and/or race of Patrice Evra."

There's no question that Rodriguez falls into that category of double offence, as did Suarez.

We KNOW already that Firmino has transgressed on that first allegation of insulting words - we now wait to see if he's ALSO transgressed on racial abuse grounds.

So you wanna start charging every footballer that says insulting words to oppo players?

Games around christmas will have abar 5 players on each side.

Its a mans sport David, played by men, football is war, in war passion overflows.

No issue with Mason giving shiny teeth a shove, no issue with shiny teeth giving him pelters.

 

[davek]

As I said, the way it is written on the FA statement on Rodriguez - which you referenced as your evidence - clearly suggests it's one charge. I can't tell you for certain that it's one charge because I've only seen that statement, but if it is indeed two charges, the FA need to employ somebody who can write properly, as the wording of the statement clearly only lists one.

The difference is clear in the statement you've provided above, when there were two charges they clearly stated it by splitting them up into distinct sentences, in the Rodriguez one it is simply a charge relating to the racism. The allegation from Bong was that Rodriguez said 'you smell because you're black'. It seems obvious to me that the FA don't think that saying somebody smells is worthy of a charge, so the charge is solely for adding 'because you're black'. This explains why the charge reads 'abusive and/or insulting words including reference to' rather than 'abusive and/or insulting words. It is further alleged...'

This only applies to Rodriguez as that's all I was ever talking about, whether Firmino could face a double charge is another matter.

No mate, the reverse: it clearly indicates there are two transgressions and two charges and only one of those two is for racist abuse.

 

[Deleted member 28206]

Still nothing?

 

[Lanolin]

No mate, the reverse: it clearly indicates there are two transgressions and two charges and only one of those two is for racist abuse.

Only if you can't read.

 

[davek]

So you wanna start charging every footballer that says insulting words to oppo players?

Games around christmas will have abar 5 players on each side.

Its a mans sport David, played by men, football is war, in war passion overflows.

No issue with Mason giving shiny teeth a shove, no issue with shiny teeth giving him pelters.

Take a look at ANY season's end FA reports on conduct violations. You'll see that abusive language are quite common amongst the reasons for bans handed out.

As said, there are people here who reckon calling someone under the refs nose a son of a whore is not an issue. IT IS. And the FA punishes that incident on a regular basis.

 

[Frank Halfcoate]

Its a mans sport David, played by men, football is war, in war passion overflows.

Ex-forces man eh? I thought as much, I could tell. What regiment were you?

 

[Dabluez]

Rodriguez was done for both insulting and abusive language AND racist abuse. There is two charges in that FA statement. If they wanted to indicate that it was only a charge of racist abuse they'd have said so.

Look, here's the charges the FA laid at the door of Suarez when he had his run in with Evra:

"It is alleged that Suarez used abusive and/or insulting words and/or behaviour towards Manchester United's Patrice Evra contrary to FA rules. It is further alleged that this included a reference to the ethnic origin and/or colour and/or race of Patrice Evra."

There's no question that Rodriguez falls into that category of double offence, as did Suarez.

We KNOW already that Firmino has transgressed on that first allegation of insulting words - we now wait to see if he's ALSO transgressed on racial abuse grounds.

If you want to bring up the Suarez-Evra case Dave then please realise that it completely destroys your witch hunt. Evra admitted using a disgusting Spanish Phrase that makes 'Puta' sound like a term of endearment. So could you please explain why Evra wasn't charged with using abusive and/or insulting words.

The answer is that we accept that Football is a sport in which players of all sides say nasty and unpleasant things to each other. What we don't accept is racism. All you are doing here is muddying the waters. If you want to go down the road of not accepting players and fans not insulting each other then you will have no players and no fans inside Stadiums.

I have tried to stay out of this thread because I can't be bothered with the constant accusations of being a kopite for daring to stand up to your idiocy. The thing is Dave that your levels of hypocrisy are off the scale. You complain about a common place phrase like 'son of a bitch' whilst branding someone of mixed race a Neo Nazi. Just think about how idiotic that is before your next urge to post moronic hate filled one and two liners.

I am a child of the 80's and would love to return to the situation of banter mixed with mutual respect. As a fan I have witnessed our fall from grace and it has hurt like hell but the sooner we start ignoring them and concentrating on getting our Club right the better.

 

[billy bluestar]

Who cares, stuff is said.... everyone is offended about everything nowadays..big girls...

 

[roydo]

..big girls...

*bursts into tears*

 

[Dabluez]

Take a look at ANY season's end FA reports on conduct violations. You'll see that abusive language are quite common amongst the reasons for bans handed out.

As said, there are people here who reckon calling someone under the refs nose a son of a whore is not an issue. IT IS. And the FA punishes that incident on a regular basis.

Bans are almost universally handed out for abusive language when they are directed at match officials. Go to any kids game up and down the Country and you will hear far worse language.

 

[billy bluestar]

That’s where I work at the moment... Vietnam oil and gas worker

 

[davek]

If you want to bring up the Suarez-Evra case Dave then please realise that it completely destroys your witch hunt. Evra admitted using a disgusting Spanish Phrase that makes 'Puta' sound like a term of endearment. So could you please explain why Evra wasn't charged with using abusive and/or insulting words.

The answer is that we accept that Football is a sport in which players of all sides say nasty and unpleasant things to each other. What we don't accept is racism. All you are doing here is muddying the waters. If you want to go down the road of not accepting players and fans not insulting each other then you will have no players and no fans inside Stadiums.

I have tried to stay out of this thread because I can't be bothered with the constant accusations of being a kopite for daring to stand up to your idiocy. The thing is Dave that your levels of hypocrisy are off the scale. You complain about a common place phrase like 'son of a bitch' whilst branding someone of mixed race a Neo Nazi. Just think about how idiotic that is before your next urge to post moronic hate filled one and two liners.

I am a child of the 80's and would love to return to the situation of banter mixed with mutual respect. As a fan I have witnessed our fall from grace and it has hurt like hell but the sooner we start ignoring them and concentrating on getting our Club right the better.

He was. Do your research. You fell at the first fence.

The FA decision saw Suarez's given further punishment on top of the insulting language charge for 'aggravated' reasons: i.e. they also constituted racial abuse.

Rule E3, with the sub-heading "General Behaviour", provides as follows:

"(1) A Participant shall at all times act in the best interests of the game and shall not act in any manner which is improper or brings the game into disrepute or use any one, or a combination of, violent conduct, serious foul play, threatening, abusive, indecent or insulting words or behaviour.

(2) In the event of any breach of Rule E3(1) including a reference to any one or more of a person's ethnic origin, colour, race, nationality, faith, gender, sexual orientation or disability (an "aggravating factor"), a Regulatory Commission shall consider the imposition of an increased sanction

You're very welcome.