Holgate Racially Abused By Firmino - The Guardian

[Dabluez]

The FA case against Suarez dragged on needlessly because they fell for the BS social media commentary about linguistic experts to get an interpretation they didn't require because Suarez himself had admitted the context and meaning to his words.

The FA are a private body and they have their rules. The law would reluctantly intervene to reverse their decision making as it would run a coach and horses through the rights of other private bodies to do the same thing. Civil society would become impossible under such circumstances.

They have the surveillance technology available in the top flight to make considered judgements quickly. Interview the main protagonists and then make an informed judgement.

Given that both Suarez and Firmino spoke in foreign languages I think linguistic experts are pretty much a pre-requisite. As for Suarez didn't he merely admit to using the Spanish word 'Negro' which translates to the English word Black. The FA had to decide if he had used racist language.

As for the FA being a private body it is partly funded by public money and last year was warned it risked losing £30m of funding if it did not reform.

Regarding you point about video technology. I think if there was any footage showing Firmino using racist language then he would of been charged already. So the likelihood is that it will come down to which account is the more plausible and which witnesses are deemed the most reliable.

 

[Harryflashman]

You misinterpreted what I was suggesting mate. My point was that if players were faced with waiting until a declaration on charges were made then the authorities and clubs would use existing technology and fast track their evidence gathering on face to face interviews with players of clubs looking to avoid a missed game and decisions could be made rapidly.

How long does it take the FA to decide whether a red card stands or not? Days. Why are we pretending that the same speed cant be applied to verbal abuse?

Isn’t that a bit like comparing a shoplifter getting charged the day they’re arrested and a fraud investigation taking a year ? They’re just not the same thing mate one is simply more complex , a player clattering onto another one can be clearly seen on camera and dealt with immediately but a allegation such as this is going to take time .

All That doesn’t mean I think that it’s been quick enough but what you’re suggesting still effectively means punishing a player before a verdict . I suspect like the rest of us mate you’re frustrated by the apparent lack of action coupled with the appalling media response . Unfortunately I just think something of this magnitude has to be waited out that’s because I unlike the Daily Mail and the RS think it’s a serious matter .

 

[Dabluez]

You misinterpreted what I was suggesting mate. My point was that if players were faced with waiting until a declaration on charges were made then the authorities and clubs would use existing technology and fast track their evidence gathering on face to face interviews with players of clubs looking to avoid a missed game and decisions could be made rapidly.

How long does it take the FA to decide whether a red card stands or not? Days. Why are we pretending that the same speed cant be applied to verbal abuse?

When a red card has been issued then a decision has already been made. Players have a right to appeal against that decision.

What you are suggesting is that a player should be banned from playing before he has even been charged with an offence. If you think Firmino should be banned from playing at the moment then what should happen with Mason over the allegation that he made homophobic tweets.

You could end up with a situation were half the League is banned just because some nutter has made an accusation about them.

 

[davek]

Given that both Suarez and Firmino spoke in foreign languages I think linguistic experts are pretty much a pre-requisite. As for Suarez didn't he merely admit to using the Spanish word 'Negro' which translates to the English word Black. The FA had to decide if he had used racist language.As for the FA being a private body it is partly funded by public money and last year was warned it risked losing £30m of funding if it did not reform.Regarding you point about video technology. I think if there was any footage showing Firmino using racist language then he would of been charged already. So the likelihood is that it will come down to which account is the more plausible and which witnesses are deemed the most reliable.

Hmmmm

 

[Goat]

4 weeks and counting, this is just unreal, nobody outside this forum and Jim Beglin is even talking about it anymore.

Just unreal.

 

[davek]

Isn’t that a bit like comparing a shoplifter getting charged the day they’re arrested and a fraud investigation taking a year ? They’re just not the same thing mate one is simply more complex , a player clattering onto another one can be clearly seen on camera and dealt with immediately but a allegation such as this is going to take time .

All That doesn’t mean I think that it’s been quick enough but what you’re suggesting still effectively means punishing a player before a verdict . I suspect like the rest of us mate you’re frustrated by the apparent lack of action coupled with the appalling media response . Unfortunately I just think something of this magnitude has to be waited out that’s because I unlike the Daily Mail and the RS think it’s a serious matter .

I dont think it is, no.

For example, red cards can be issued for dissent. That's a verbal offence and down to interpretation. Red cards are still either upheld or rescinded in days.

Regardless of that though, how long does it take to collect written evidence from a player or two; look at a series of camera angles; consult (if non-English epithets have been hurled) a couple of experts on the language in question; assess that evidence and take a vote? Certainly not weeks.

 

[davek]

When a red card has been issued then a decision has already been made. Players have a right to appeal against that decision.

What you are suggesting is that a player should be banned from playing before he has even been charged with an offence. If you think Firmino should be banned from playing at the moment then what should happen with Mason over the allegation that he made homophobic tweets.

You could end up with a situation were half the League is banned just because some nutter has made an accusation about them.

Hmmmmm.

 

[JelavicBrate2]

Unsurprisingly nothing has happened, if anyone is going to get charged it will be Holgate. As I've previously mentioned Holgates comments were made when he was 15, at a time when it was largely accepted. Very few people got into trouble for using homophobic language, up until recently. Most people used homophobic language at school which was when, he made it. I think we all know he used it, the referee knew and so do the Everton players. I think because of the fact Liverpool are 1 of the biggest clubs in Britain and he is one of their best players, heavily influences their decision not to deal with it.

 

[4737carlin]

Unsurprisingly nothing has happened, if anyone is going to get charged it will be Holgate. As I've previously mentioned Holgates comments were made when he was 15, at a time when it was largely accepted. Very few people got into trouble for using homophobic language, up until recently. Most people used homophobic language at school which was when, he made it. I think we all know he used it, the referee knew and so do the Everton players. I think because of the fact Liverpool are 1 of the biggest clubs in Britain and he is one of their best players, heavily influences their decision not to deal with it.

Let's face it Suarez only got done because he admitted it, and that was against a United player, do it to an Everton player and no one seems to be arsed

 

[longers]

think we all know he used it, the referee knew and so do the Everton players

Mate cmon, you haven’t got a clue just like everyone else here... you’re just guessing based on what your bias tells you to think.

 

[Seathestars]

Hmmmmm.

Yes, Hmmmmm.

 

[Seathestars]

Given that both Suarez and Firmino spoke in foreign languages I think linguistic experts are pretty much a pre-requisite. As for Suarez didn't he merely admit to using the Spanish word 'Negro' which translates to the English word Black. The FA had to decide if he had used racist language.

As for the FA being a private body it is partly funded by public money and last year was warned it risked losing £30m of funding if it did not reform.

Regarding you point about video technology. I think if there was any footage showing Firmino using racist language then he would of been charged already. So the likelihood is that it will come down to which account is the more plausible and which witnesses are deemed the most reliable.

You think he might be feeling like the victim in all this mate.

 

[TheFinnFan]

Mate cmon, you haven’t got a clue just like everyone else here... you’re just guessing based on what your bias tells you to think.

If Firbinbo is innocent is it good for his rights and reputation that the cases "investigation" takes so long?? FA / Kopite tactic... watering it down

 

[longers]

If Firbinbo is innocent is it good for his rights and reputation that the cases "investigation" takes so long?? FA / Kopite tactic... watering it down

I imagine most football supporters other than Liverpool and Everton fans have completely forgot about it and thus I doubt its ruining his reputation other than amongst Everton fans who already hate him by default. It's also a big stretch to assume that because something takes ages there must be a conspiracy of some sort.

I mean we have people here claiming a conspiracy against Everton before we've even had the results of the investigation, its absurd but entirely expected from a football forum.

 

[TheFinnFan]

I imagine most football supporters other than Liverpool and Everton fans have completely forgot about it and thus I doubt its ruining his reputation other than amongst Everton fans who already hate him by default. It's also a big stretch to assume that because something takes ages there must be a conspiracy of some sort.

I mean we have people here claiming a conspiracy against Everton before we've even had the results of the investigation, its absurd but entirely expected from a football forum.

FA / kopites successful already then like you said...everybody else have already forgotten this case. There you go.