“Fans” that won’t support us if we get Allardyce

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DualityNSNO said:
Also FWIW this is the first time Fat Sam's managing a decent enough team whose main goal isn't to avoid relegation every season.

Also Guardiola, as an extreme example, started off with Barca on the backbone on 1 total season of youth football, so what this past history tells us is nothing. A manager can do average/badly in one team and absolutely smash with another, that's just life/motivation/possibilities/prospects.
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I agree with your general point but also when a manager has over 500 games behind him and his record is pretty much the same in every job, it's a fair conclusion to suggest things won't change any time soon.
 

Papa Shango said:
People will one day realize that what a manager (or player come to think of it) has done at another club in the past is totally irrelevant.
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DualityNSNO said:
Also FWIW this is the first time Fat Sam's managing a decent enough team whose main goal isn't to avoid relegation every season.

Also Guardiola, as an extreme example, started off with Barca on the backbone on 1 total season of youth football, so what this past history tells us is nothing. A manager can do average/badly in one team and absolutely smash with another, that's just life/motivation/possibilities/prospects.
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Both of these are fair points, and true to an extent, but there is a little more to it than that.

There's a reason why Guardiola, Mourinho et al are seen as top coaches, and wanted by the top clubs. There's also a reason why both of them - as well as the likes of Klopp, Conte etc - were in big jobs at a relatively young age. They were identified as quality coaches/motivators/tacticians even when not in the top jobs, and were fast tracked into the big time because of the qualities they showed.

Yes you can be successful at one club and fail at another, yes you can have a few failures but then come good elsewhere, but it's not just pot luck. There are qualities that make you a good or bad manager. The more good and less bad you have the more successful you are likely to be. It's not the bizarre twist of fate that some people seem to suggest that Allardyce has never managed a 'good' side, it's that nobody's ever believed he was worthy of the chance.
 
Lanolin said:
Both of these are fair points, and true to an extent, but there is a little more to it than that.

There's a reason why Guardiola, Mourinho et al are seen as top coaches, and wanted by the top clubs. There's also a reason why both of them - as well as the likes of Klopp, Conte etc - were in big jobs at a relatively young age. They were identified as quality coaches/motivators/tacticians even when not in the top jobs, and were fast tracked into the big time because of the qualities they showed.

Yes you can be successful at one club and fail at another, yes you can have a few failures but then come good elsewhere, but it's not just pot luck. There are qualities that make you a good or bad manager. The more good and less bad you have the more successful you are likely to be. It's not the bizarre twist of fate that some people seem to suggest that Allardyce has never managed a 'good' side, it's that nobody's ever believed he was worthy of the chance.
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Great post that.
 
Lanolin said:
Both of these are fair points, and true to an extent, but there is a little more to it than that.

There's a reason why Guardiola, Mourinho et al are seen as top coaches, and wanted by the top clubs. There's also a reason why both of them - as well as the likes of Klopp, Conte etc - were in big jobs at a relatively young age. They were identified as quality coaches/motivators/tacticians even when not in the top jobs, and were fast tracked into the big time because of the qualities they showed.

Yes you can be successful at one club and fail at another, yes you can have a few failures but then come good elsewhere, but it's not just pot luck. There are qualities that make you a good or bad manager. The more good and less bad you have the more successful you are likely to be. It's not the bizarre twist of fate that some people seem to suggest that Allardyce has never managed a 'good' side, it's that nobody's ever believed he was worthy of the chance.
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Kind of. Klopp and Mourinho worked up to bigger jobs at smaller clubs (Their nations Bolton's for example). Conte worked his way up too. Difference is a lot of clubs abroad will take a flier on a young coach. Over here that would not really happen, especially an English one.

We will never know how Guardiola would cope managing a team like Blackpool with an owner hell bent on destroying them etc.

His Bolton side WAS a good side. He stayed there too long though probably.
 
MickA said:
I agree with your general point but also when a manager has over 500 games behind him and his record is pretty much the same in every job, it's a fair conclusion to suggest things won't change any time soon.
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In the modern era only Walter Smith and Martinez have won a trophy before coming to us .This idea you seem to have stuck in your head that we could have (and should have) attracted a top manager is odd to say the least.Allardyce like all managers will be rated on results,yet so many posters would rather harp on about unsubstantiated rumours of bungs.Would you rather we had someone like the squeaky clean and successful Conte?
 

davids said:
In the modern era only Walter Smith and Martinez have won a trophy before coming to us .This idea you seem to have stuck in your head that we could have (and should have) attracted a top manager is odd to say the least.Allardyce like all managers will be rated on results,yet so many posters would rather harp on about unsubstantiated rumours of bungs.Would you rather we had someone like the squeaky clean and successful Conte?
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Well....
 
davids said:
In the modern era only Walter Smith and Martinez have won a trophy before coming to us .This idea you seem to have stuck in your head that we could have (and should have) attracted a top manager is odd to say the least.Allardyce like all managers will be rated on results,yet so many posters would rather harp on about unsubstantiated rumours of bungs.Would you rather we had someone like the squeaky clean and successful Conte?
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For £6m pa I don't think I'm being too off the wall to suggest we should have a better manager than Allardyce or his ilk.
 

davids said:
Not accurate enough for you? As for banal tripe...I'm sure someone will be along to tell us how they've given their season ticket to a mate.
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The poster you're quoting has passed on his season ticket to his family members mate, i know that for a guaranteed fact, so you are frankly talking out your arse :)

As for your weird comment about SIlva, errrm yes mate he didn't want the job in the slightest, it is why at every opportunity he confirmed his wish to stay at Watford and squashed the constant questions about the Everton job he was asked at every turn... Oh wait
 
bluestevon said:
The poster you're quoting has passed on his season ticket to his family members mate, i know that for a guaranteed fact, so you are frankly talking out your arse :)

As for your weird comment about SIlva, errrm yes mate he didn't want the job in the slightest, it is why at every opportunity he confirmed his wish to stay at Watford and squashed the constant questions about the Everton job he was asked at every turn... Oh wait
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I didn't have any poster in mind there are quite a few,so I didn't "quote" anyone.I'm still waiting for Silva to resign and join us,I just wont hold my breath.
 
davids said:
I didn't have any poster in mind there are quite a few,so I didn't "quote" anyone.I'm still waiting for Silva to resign and join us,I just wont hold my breath.
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Very few thought he would do that, no matter how much he would have wanted the job, and for two main reasons, it would damage his reputation for any future club after us and in the media, and Watford could ultimately just block him from joining if he did resign which would leave him sitting not working and unable to take this job anyway.
 

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