you do know I am being sarcastic don't you?
please say you do, I can't keep up any more.
..I'm so naive Thomas.
- Status
..I'm so naive Thomas.
Whereas most of us don't care what others on here think... because a lot of it is nonsense.
We care about what the manager thinks.
Surely you understand the difference between playing competitive games against senior players when points are on the line and playing against people in training when they're just going through the motions?
Going on loan is a longstanding rite of passage for young players, it's not like we've just come up with some wacky new scheme that'll never catch on.
johnnydawg68
Chairperson, People's Front of Saint Domingo
A lot mate.
Although I agree with Dowell going on loan (especially with Warburton at the club), you have to say that our recent record of loans resulting in players breaking into the first team has not been particularly impressive:
Ledson - successful loan, sold to club
Lundstram - successful loan, sold to club
Kenny - successful loan, back at EFC, not in first team at the moment
Connolly - successful loan, back at EFC, possible makeweight in Sigurdsson deal?
McAleny - series of unsuccessful loans, released
Grant - loan periods mixed, back at club with little likelihood of first team
Garbutt - was first team, mixed to bad loan periods, back at club with little likelihood of first team
Galloway - was first team, horrible loan period, on loan at Sunderland
On the other hand, look at those youth players who are getting minutes:
Holgate - bought in
Calvert-Lewin - bought in
Lookman - bought in
Davies - never gone on loan
I've mentioned before that I think (hope) we're at a bit of a changeover point for this type of thing.
I used the example of Pennington initially so I'll stick with that to illustrate what I mean. I think a few years ago a player who was good enough to be a regular starter in the Championship was usually good enough to be a regular squad member for us. I'm talking about the sort of time that Moyes had squads with about 18 senior players, and we often signed players from the Championship anyway. At that point, I think someone like Pennington would have been in 30 matchday squads a season, and got 10-15 games, possibly progressing to more as he got older. Now the quality of the squad is higher, and players like him are less likely to make their career with us.
The same principle applies in instances like this. Dowell is probably more developed than the likes of Rodwell and Anichebe were when they got into the side, but the quality of player he's trying to oust has gone up. Whereas they only had to be able to compete with Castillo, Gosling, Beckford etc for a place in the squad (apologies if my years are slightly out there, I haven't checked when their breakthroughs were) Dowell is effectively competing with (hopefully) Sigurdsson, Mirallas, Sandro, Rooney, Klaassen, Lennon, Bolasie and currently Barkley, aswell as Lookman and DCL from his own age group. We're therefore looking for him to be a bit more developed before he gets a look in. If he comes back a better player he might get a chance next year, if he doesn't he'll probably follow the path of some of the others you mentioned there.
Yes, that was why I was saying that I thought him going out on loan was a good idea because we are stuffed with midfielders and already have youngsters fighting for places in the team (although not direct competition, playing Davies, Lookman and/or DCL could mean that any manager is less likely to play even more youth in a side).
I thought they were interesting quotes re Pochettino from an article today re their next generation of young players being good (Walker-Peters, Onomah, Carter-Vickers) but not yet good enough. I imagine there are more than a few Spurs fans wanting to give their own youth a chance rather than - as they see it - overspend on Barkley.
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
He's been playing in our first team.
Erm, no, he hasnt.
Holgate - 20 senior appearances for Barnsley before his Everton debut.
Calvert-Lewin - 11 senior appearances for Sheff Utd, 5 for Stalybridge Celtic, 20 for Northampton before his Everton debut
Lookman - 45 senior appearances for Charlton before his Everton debut.
It's arguably no coincidence that these players have leapfrogged many academy players into the first team. First team football can be very beneficial regardless of the level. The pressures and expectations are vastly different to U23 level regardless of whether it's Championship, League 1 or below.
Dave were you in favour of Rooney returning
Asking for a friend like
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
Would you advise Juan Mata, David Silva, Mesut Ozil to 'toughen up'?
There's some terrible points of view amongst our supporters that all our players should be like caged fighters if they look to have a lot of talent.
It's like just having talent isn't enough...it;s not to be trusted unless it's able to smash an opponent to bits too.
This from the fans of a club that prides itself on being called the School of Science...more gladiator school.
Unreal.
I dont think he needs to toughen up, what he needs is to play every week and learn how football works at a higher level than hes used to.
Whats the issue here? Hopefully he shines and we look forward to his return 12months from now.
davek
Player Valuation: £150m
The manager cant tell me a thing about this football club...NOT one thing.
Sure, I agree that their first-team experience is what got them the moves - I was mainly commenting on how the 'loan system' as currently operated hasn't really worked out that well for our first team prospects.
In fact, if you add Stones and Lukaku who were both young transfers in, you would have a good argument that you would be far better off going to play for another club full time if you wanted to make it in Everton's first team...
- Status
