Current Affairs EU In or Out

[Raphael_Hythloday]

I don't get this 'blame the media' attitude we have here.

I do. It is quite justifiable. Not only on this forum, but on all fora and discussion. The media deserve widespread criticism - particularly the BBC - for not holding the powerful to account. Quite the opposite: the media and politicians are bedfellows.

It's not just the right, we the left are just as bad for it.

True but not all on the left. The economic right are illiterate thinkers; the intolerant left think like children. What we might consider "left wing" may have no appeal to a working class Labour voter in County Durham.

At the end of the day, the media are the best people for keeping people in check and asking questions that otherwise would be ignored. Accountability is everything.

An entirely delusional concept and completely false.

The English press are all owned by corporations. Murdoch's rags, the Independent, The Daily Mail and the Daily Telegraph are all owned by foreign corporations/tax dodging companies/Russian oligarchs. They do not hold politicians to account. Politicians, particularly on the right, are in the pockets of many of these newspapers. The Guardian - the Liberal's Daily - tax dodges, too.

The media, world banks and politicians exist in a matrix to make themselves rich. It's a big club and people like us are deliberately excluded.

I am pleased the young no longer receive their news from newspapers. Long may it continue.

 

[nsno-chris]

Unreported Fact: Holland, Port of Rotterdam in particular, have a bilateral agreement with the USA on certain food goods, this is separate to any deal the commission have with the states.

 

[Number_25]

Me arl man was arrested in the 70s because some utter biff told the police he was planning a violent revolution.

I'm genuinely terrified of the scare-stories happening again.

 

[orchard]

Yea, it's not the sort of state i'd want us to be in either mate. It's a major reason why i'm so opposed to may.

Me arl man was arrested in the 70s because some utter biff told the police he was planning a violent revolution.

I'm genuinely terrified of the scare-stories happening again.

 

[Number_25]

Yea, it's not the sort of state i'd want us to be in either mate. It's a major reason why i'm so opposed to may.

It's really appalling.

 

[Old Blue 2]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40571123

I don't particularly like the man, but he has said this in Parliament today regarding the Brexit 'divorce bill':
"The sums I have seen that they propose to demand from this country appear to be extortionate."

"Go whistle seems to me to be an entirely appropriate expression," he added.

Bruce has asked me to move this here.

 

[Bruce Wayne]

Also of note is the European open skies thing (it has a name but I can't remember what it is). Basically means any EU airline can fly anywhere in the EU without any bother. It's resulted in a huge boost in air travel, with fares dropping throughout Europe, and we'll be outside it unless a deal is struck. RyanAir and EasyJet are very nervous, as they will surely be lobbied against by European carriers so that they wouldn't have the same access they previously enjoyed.

Yet another of those things that wasn't on the leaflets or in the press leading up to the vote, yet is really pretty important.

 

[Old Blue 2]

Also of note is the European open skies thing (it has a name but I can't remember what it is). Basically means any EU airline can fly anywhere in the EU without any bother. It's resulted in a huge boost in air travel, with fares dropping throughout Europe, and we'll be outside it unless a deal is struck. RyanAir and EasyJet are very nervous, as they will surely be lobbied against by European carriers so that they wouldn't have the same access they previously enjoyed.

Yet another of those things that wasn't on the leaflets or in the press leading up to the vote, yet is really pretty important.

One would expect that everything ultimately will shake down on a 'quid pro quo' basis. But those Europeans are funny buggers...

 

[Bruce Wayne]

One would expect that everything ultimately will shake down on a 'quid pro quo' basis. But those Europeans are funny buggers...

The quid pro quo in this instance is European jurisdiction. It's their system so they appoint the referee to oversee it (the ECJ), which has been a constant 'red line' for Davis, hence the nervousness from EasyJet et al.

 

[tsubaki]

The quid pro quo in this instance is European jurisdiction. It's their system so they appoint the referee to oversee it (the ECJ), which has been a constant 'red line' for Davis, hence the nervousness from EasyJet et al.

The fact that it's a red line anyway is a massive error; if they had a brain they'd be instead calling for the adjudicating body to be made up of the ECJ and our Supreme Court.

 

[jal123]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40571123

I don't particularly like the man, but he has said this in Parliament today regarding the Brexit 'divorce bill':
"The sums I have seen that they propose to demand from this country appear to be extortionate."

"Go whistle seems to me to be an entirely appropriate expression," he added.

Bruce has asked me to move this here.

What an arrogant, obnoxious piece of work he really is.

 

[Armel]

The fact that it's a red line anyway is a massive error; if they had a brain they'd be instead calling for the adjudicating body to be made up of the ECJ and our Supreme Court.

No it isn't it: there's nothing in it for the EU. @Bruce Wayne is correct the conventional carriers are already lobbying (already read about KLM and Air France et al.; this is quite logical they want to hurt Easyjet and colleagues). I read plane tickets prices would go up by 10 percent in the most probable scenario, so it's not the end of the world in any case.

 

[tsubaki]

No it isn't it: there's nothing in it for the EU. @Bruce Wayne is correct the conventional carriers are already lobbying (already read about KLM and Air France et al.; this is quite logical they want to hurt Easyjet and colleagues). I read plane tickets prices would go up by 10 percent in the most probable scenario, so it's not the end of the world in any case.

Not sure how you work that one out. There is a demonstrable interest in the EU having a body that can adjudicate disputes between the EU and UK, that is why they want the ECJ to do it. My point was that balancing the ECJ with a contribution from the UK would be easy, especially as we would always have the nuclear option of not signing up to it, it is demonstrably and unarguably more fair than the ECJ alone playing that role, and they (the EU) have already established a precedent for balanced arbitration anyway (as part of TTIP).

 

[Armel]

Not sure how you work that one out. There is a demonstrable interest in the EU having a body that can adjudicate disputes between the EU and UK, that is why they want the ECJ to do it. My point was that balancing the ECJ with a contribution from the UK would be easy, especially as we would always have the nuclear option of not signing up to it, it is demonstrably and unarguably more fair than the ECJ alone playing that role, and they (the EU) have already established a precedent for balanced arbitration anyway (as part of TTIP).

I should have chosen my words more carefully, sorry mate. I don't think such a thing will come into being because there is no willingness for such a concept. They won't want that (red line), so in my view it's not in their interest then. I don't think the negotiations will have a successful outcome anyway, so it's all quite irrelevant at his point. Their system their rules.

 

[hullefc]

EU warns talks could fail after Johnson's 'go whistle' remarks

EU says Brexit talks could fail after Johnson's 'go whistle' remarks
Michel Barnier says so-called ‘divorce bill’ is indivisible from other parts of negotiation and payment is a matter of trust




Michel Barnier said: ‘How do you build a relationship based on trade, security … which is going to last, with a country with which you don’t have trust?’ Photograph: Virginia Mayo/APN
Dan Roberts in Brussels

@RobertsDan
Wednesday 12 July 2017 12.34 BSTLast modified on Wednesday 12 July 2017 12.49 BST

The European Union has said the Brexit talks could be derailed by an escalating fight over money as it fired back at Boris Johnson for telling the EU leaders to “go whistle” if they expected Britain to pay a divorce bill for withdrawing from the bloc.

“I am not hearing any whistling, just a clock ticking,” said the EU negotiator Michel Barnier at a press conference in Brussels to preview the next round of talks, due to begin on Monday.

His London counterpart, the Brexit secretary, David Davis, has not yet presented a formal UK position on the scale of any financial settlement when Britain leaves, which some estimates have suggested could be as a high as €100bn.

But EU officials are adamant that failure to at least acknowledge the principle of ongoing budget obligations would prevent talks from proceeding at all and not allow any discussion of future relationship issues such as a free trade deal.

“The three priorities for the first phase are indivisible,” said Barnier, referring to the financial settlement, citizens’ rights and other separation issues such as the Northern Irish border. “Progress on one or two would not be sufficient in order for us to move on to the discussion of our future relationship.”

In some of the most strident exchanges of the Brexit process so far, Barnier said the issue was not simply a technical sequencing matter but went to the heart of whether the two sides could trust each other.

“How do you build a relationship based on trade, security … which is going to last, with a country with which you don’t have trust?” implored the French diplomat. “I am saying this from the bottom of my heart, I want us to build that relationship.”

Questioned in the House of Commons on Tuesday about whether Brussels should be told to “go whistle” for the money – a dismissive suggestion that its demands are futile – Johnson, the foreign secretary, replied: “I think that the sums that I have seen ... seem to me to be extortionate and I think ‘go whistle’ is an entirely appropriate expression.”

“People have used words like ransom,” added Barnier. “It’s not an exit bill, it’s not a punishment, it’s not a revenge, it’s simply settling accounts. It’s not easy and it might be expensive, but we are not asking for a single pound or euro more than they have legally agreed to provide. You can discuss this or that budget line, but they have to start by recognising that they have entered into commitments.”

The Tories megaphone diplomacy is looking more and more stupid by the day.