New Everton Stadium Discussion

[roydo]

That's all ceteris paribus mate.

Things do change over decades...A LOT. Rewind forty years in this industry and see how much from that point matters changed off the pitch. It went from bankrupt to bank and can easily go back.

I'm amazed at the general level of relaxation over this package. I know we've been saying for years that the bubble wont last forever and it seems to just defy that, but someday soon the industry will go into reverse. It's a law when you deal in a consumer service like this. It's nice that you've been told the people behind this scheme dont do risk, but no one is master of that universe. They cant control a thing if the arse falls out of demand for this game.

Yeah, I get that. And to some extent, have the same misgivings about the way football just is these days.

I know, or at least I think I do, that you are a student of the game, and no market ever only goes up. Especially over hyped ones. And referring to the folk I know who might be involved, as far as I know, this sort of investment, (sports ground), is a first for them. Certainly didnt have any in their portfolios when I was there anyrate.
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But, ultimately, we either stand still, or go backwards relatively, or take a measured and relatively low risk decision, that has the potential to move Everton onto that dead awful phrase, "next level"

Staying at GP will not do that. Revamping GP will not do that.

Bramley Moore will, or being conservative, might do.

 

[davek]

Yeah, I get that. And to some extent, have the same misgivings about the way football just is these days.

I know, or at least I think I do, that you are a student of the game, and no market ever only goes up. Especially over hyped ones. And referring to the folk I know who might be involved, as far as I know, this sort of investment, (sports ground), is a first for them. Certainly didnt have any in their portfolios when I was there anyrate.
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But, ultimately, we either stand still, or go backwards relatively, or take a measured and relatively low risk decision, that has the potential to move Everton onto that dead awful phrase, "next level"

Staying at GP will not do that. Revamping GP will not do that.

Bramley Moore will, or being conservative, might do.

I still think you downgrade the risk factor here - though you're not alone in that like.

I'm not saying it will fail. I just think if you expose yourself to debt then get it paid off asap before it becomes a nightmare. And for me this stadium has the unhappy possibility for catastrophe.

 

[roydo]

I still think you downgrade the risk factor here - though you're not alone in that like.

I'm not saying it will fail. I just think if you expose yourself to debt then get it paid off asap before it becomes a nightmare. And for me this stadium has the unhappy possibility for catastrophe.

Its not me down playing the risk Dave. Its the potential investors who are.

And as I think I know at least one, that is their playground. Low risk, steady yield, stable tenant/repayer.

 

[davek]

Its not me down playing the risk Dave. Its the potential investors who are.

And as I think I know at least one, that is their playground. Low risk, steady yield, stable tenant/repayer.

It's no risk for them if their arses are covered.

 

[tommye]

Its not me down playing the risk Dave. Its the potential investors who are.

And as I think I know at least one, that is their playground. Low risk, steady yield, stable tenant/repayer.

It's almost like these fellas know what they're doing...

 

[roydo]

It's no risk for them if their arses are covered.

But that is good. For everyone.

It means they stick to their side, and we stick to ours.

Called a mature investment partnership. Not some fly by night lobbing up a few semis on patch of land at minimum spend. A serious property investment company doing business with a company that they are more than happy to deal with for maybe 40 years.

 

[davek]

But that is good. For everyone.

It means they stick to their side, and we stick to ours.

Called a mature investment partnership. Not some fly by night lobbing up a few semis on patch of land at minimum spend. A serious property investment company doing business with a company that they are more than happy to deal with for maybe 40 years.

Not being funny mate but I read stuff about stability of investment from hedge funds and pension funds and the like and I have to shake my head in amazement. These people our alchemists, not scientists.

It's all BS the market. There is no sure thing. Surely 2007-08 cured everyone of the notion that these people have a clue what they're doing?

 

[ashwuk76]

Not being funny mate but I read stuff about stability of investment from hedge funds and pension funds and the like and I have to shake my head in amazement. These people our alchemists, not scientists.

It's all BS the market. There is no sure thing. Surely 2007-08 cured everyone of the notion that these people have a clue what they're doing?

The socialist in me wants to agree with you mate..

But my heart for Everton wants to believe they know what they are doing..

 

[MikeH72]

Can't believe the club has gone under.

 

[Eggsyblueskin]

I still think you downgrade the risk factor here - though you're not alone in that like.

I'm not saying it will fail. I just think if you expose yourself to debt then get it paid off asap before it becomes a nightmare. And for me this stadium has the unhappy possibility for catastrophe.

I do understand your concern, however we can't continue to stand still and do nothing. When I started watching Everton we were one of the elite and the RS were just mouthy upstarts. Now we're not even the top team in our own city!
You say get it right on the pitch first, but without the financial structure to support it any success would be ephemeral, our best players would be tempted away (see Leicester). Notts. Forest won the European cup ,twice!. For any success to be sustainable we have to maximise our revenue. That is what I hope for, sustainable success, not the odd cup win followed by decades of failure.
Will this stadium be the answer? I don't know, I hope so ,at least we're trying
As for Moshiri using his own money, most businesses run on debt, the business owner merely acts as guarantor. This was the model John Moores used. If Moshiri gets it right we could have a self -sustaining elite club not beholden to himself or any other financier. It's a gamble certainly but if you don't buy the ticket you'll never get the prize.

 

[ToffeeTim]

Elstone faffing about as always

 

[roydo]

Not being funny mate but I read stuff about stability of investment from hedge funds and pension funds and the like and I have to shake my head in amazement. These people our alchemists, not scientists.

It's all BS the market. There is no sure thing. Surely 2007-08 cured everyone of the notion that these people have a clue what they're doing?

Mate, honestly, trust me. Its not hedgies involved, not the one I know anyrate. Now capital values of commercial properties can fall, sometimes heavily, as 2007 showed.

But unless they want/need to sell one, it is actually utterly irrelevant. It is yield, low risk yield, they crave. They want stable companies/governments renting their places until ownership passes over, if thats the agreement.

Ergo, they want stable tenants with an affordable rental agreement.

Its a billion miles away from the sort of shameless scam our neighbours got embroiled in.

 

[davek]

I do understand your concern, however we can't continue to stand still and do nothing. When I started watching Everton we were one of the elite and the RS were just mouthy upstarts. Now we're not even the top team in our own city!
You say get it right on the pitch first, but without the financial structure to support it any success would be ephemeral, our best players would be tempted away (see Leicester). Notts. Forest won the European cup ,twice!. For any success to be sustainable we have to maximise our revenue. That is what I hope for, sustainable success, not the odd cup win followed by decades of failure.
Will this stadium be the answer? I don't know, I hope so ,at least we're trying
As for Moshiri using his own money, most businesses run on debt, the business owner merely acts as guarantor. This was the model John Moores used. If Moshiri gets it right we could have a self -sustaining elite club not beholden to himself or any other financier. It's a gamble certainly but if you don't buy the ticket you'll never get the prize.

But this stadium, if built, wont bear fruit for years to come. Its not a matter of build it and play in it by 2021 or something and then start adding £20M more to your transfer budget each summer from 2022.

 

[roydo]

But this stadium, if built, wont bear fruit for years to come. Its not a matter of build it and play in it by 2021 or something and then start adding £20M more to your transfer budget each summer from 2022.

So dont build anything then?

Thats an odd argument. Dont build a stadium that will last 100 another plus years cos we wont get much for another 4?

Bizarre.

 

[davek]

Mate, honestly, trust me. Its not hedgies involved, not the one I know anyrate. Now capital values of commercial properties can fall, sometimes heavily, as 2007 showed.

But unless they want/need to sell one, it is actually utterly irrelevant. It is yield, low risk yield, they crave. They want stable companies/governments renting their places until ownership passes over, if thats the agreement.

Ergo, they want stable tenants with an affordable rental agreement.

Its a billion miles away from the sort of shameless scam our neighbours got embroiled in.

These people are flesh and blood. They wont be around in 10/20/30/40 years and holding that debt. It has a habit of being passed on quite a bit, as we found with the securitization deal.

Doesn't matter if your fellers are good people at the end of the day. This is not about personalities it's about an inherently unstable system that we would do very well to minimize our exposure to. 40 years dealing with traders and the local state? I can almost guarantee you that will end in disaster at some point.