James McCarthy

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Says the poster declaring McCarthy as the second coming because he had a reasonably effective 27 minutes in a game we lost...

Yes you're right, I have definitely done that, even though I have said he is a very good squad player to have, but is behind Schneiderlin and Gana in the pecking order and doesn't possess the attributes Davies does.

I have stuck up for McCarthy all season as I believe he's a good player.
 

Yes you're right, I have definitely done that, even though I have said he is a very good squad player to have, but is behind Schneiderlin and Gana in the pecking order and doesn't possess the attributes Davies does.

I have stuck up for McCarthy all season as I believe he's a good player.
Forgive my poetic licence, but the point stands.

Basically calling others knee-jerkers for writing off McCarthy after very nearly 3 underwhelming seasons now, while simultaneously declaring that they were wrong because he had a decent game as a sub yesterday does not seem like a sound basis for argument to me.

Personally I've never been his biggest fan. I agree that he's a good squad player, but in my opinion that's all he ever was and all he ever will be. He's good at what he does, but doesn't do enough. I think he's a similar type of player to Gueye, but the latter's performances have shown that even in his first season, McCarthy was never one of the very best in that job.
 
The problem is that a lot of football fans, and clearly a lot on these forums don't see the bigger picture. They view things in the here and now and don't consider anything else like form, injuries, squad rotations, players ages etc. So at the start of the season with Barry playing well and Gana being the standout performer, they wrote McCarthy off and declared him rubbish and said he should be sold.

How wrong they were lol.

Barry has reached the same stage in his career as Jagielka. Great players in their day but no longer good enough for the starting 11. Besic is still no where near the first 11, so McCarthy is as very good squad player to have, which is evident in the selections from Koeman for the whole season who has often fit McCarthy in to the side in some way when possible, giving him a starting place at right back in August until he got injured.

I expect Koeman will use McCarthy mostly from the bench, because Gana and Schneiderlin are the favoured 2, with Davies having attributes that McCarthy just doesn't possess, but there will be games when McCarthy will be the right selection from the start. Unfortunately Koeman got it wrong selecting Barry ahead of him yesterday.
This, basically
 

Forgive my poetic licence, but the point stands.

Basically calling others knee-jerkers for writing off McCarthy after very nearly 3 underwhelming seasons now, while simultaneously declaring that they were wrong because he had a decent game as a sub yesterday does not seem like a sound basis for argument to me.

Personally I've never been his biggest fan. I agree that he's a good squad player, but in my opinion that's all he ever was and all he ever will be. He's good at what he does, but doesn't do enough. I think he's a similar type of player to Gueye, but the latter's performances have shown that even in his first season, McCarthy was never one of the very best in that job.

He has been battling injuries for 2 of those three seasons.
 
He has been battling injuries for 2 of those three seasons.
He has yes, and I take that into account.

He's played 37 games in each of the last 2 completed seasons though, so it's not like he's never put together a run of games. In those two seasons he has been average at best.

I've said numerous times on here, the lad's not a bad player but he's not a particularly good one either. There's no shame in being at the level he is and I'd happily keep him in the squad if he's happy being a back up.
 
Forgive my poetic licence, but the point stands.

Basically calling others knee-jerkers for writing off McCarthy after very nearly 3 underwhelming seasons now, while simultaneously declaring that they were wrong because he had a decent game as a sub yesterday does not seem like a sound basis for argument to me.

Personally I've never been his biggest fan. I agree that he's a good squad player, but in my opinion that's all he ever was and all he ever will be. He's good at what he does, but doesn't do enough. I think he's a similar type of player to Gueye, but the latter's performances have shown that even in his first season, McCarthy was never one of the very best in that job.

On your first point, I was criticising that some of our fans often write players off without considering that the season is played over a long period and brings about a load of unexpected obstacles. I feel that at the start of the season, loads were saying that McCarthy should be sold because Gana and Barry were considerably better and some used Besic in their argument too. For a start Gana was always going to be absent during the ACON, and Barry was a 35 year old (now 36). Besic has played far less games than McCarthy since he joined the club in 14-15, and is still yet to feature this season. One of the most ridiculous arguments I saw was the lack of goals in McCarthy's game. And I said at the time that it is not his job to score goals and that Gana wouldn't be any more effective in that regard which has proven to be correct as Gana got 0 in 35 last season for Villa, and has 1 in 22 this season for us. McCarthy has 1 in 12 which is expected. Gana has had a great season and I do agree he should be in ahead of McCarthy.

However, McCarthy's first season for us was excellent and he has been crippled with injuries since. That is the biggest concern for me. I wasn't basing my opinion on the game yesterday either. He was he catalyst for the win against Arsenal in December, bringing aggression and tenacity to the game which no one else on the pitch did to the same level, and I believe we had a strong chance of winning the Derby had he stayed on for the full 90 minutes. Again, he was a focal point in us being the better side in the first half, and I believe the game was lost when he went off and the ageing Barry replaced him.

Don't agree fully with your second point, but we both agree he is a good squad player to have.
 
On your first point, I was criticising that some of our fans often write players off without considering that the season is played over a long period and brings about a load of unexpected obstacles. I feel that at the start of the season, loads were saying that McCarthy should be sold because Gana and Barry were considerably better and some used Besic in their argument too. For a start Gana was always going to be absent during the ACON, and Barry was a 35 year old (now 36). Besic has played far less games than McCarthy since he joined the club in 14-15, and is still yet to feature this season. One of the most ridiculous arguments I saw was the lack of goals in McCarthy's game. And I said at the time that it is not his job to score goals and that Gana wouldn't be any more effective in that regard which has proven to be correct as Gana got 0 in 35 last season for Villa, and has 1 in 22 this season for us. McCarthy has 1 in 12 which is expected. Gana has had a great season and I do agree he should be in ahead of McCarthy.

However, McCarthy's first season for us was excellent and he has been crippled with injuries since. That is the biggest concern for me. I wasn't basing my opinion on the game yesterday either. He was he catalyst for the win against Arsenal in December, bringing aggression and tenacity to the game which no one else on the pitch did to the same level, and I believe we had a strong chance of winning the Derby had he stayed on for the full 90 minutes. Again, he was a focal point in us being the better side in the first half, and I believe the game was lost when he went off and the ageing Barry replaced him.

Don't agree fully with your second point, but we both agree he is a good squad player to have.
Obviously I can't speak for others, but I thought at the start of the season that selling McCarthy made sense, simply because I thought we would be buying better players to take his place. I wouldn't advocate just selling him for the sake of it, but I would have liked us to get to a stage where he was not needed. Mori, Mirallas, Valencia etc all fall into the same category for me - they're not bad players but in an ideal world we will sign players in the summer who push them far enough down the pecking order for them not to be required anymore.

I agree McCarthy did well against Arsenal and Liverpool, I thought he played well against Bournemouth too. None of those things surprise me, because he's not a bad player. If we want to start going to places like WHL and winning though, not being a bad player isn't enough.
 

Obviously I can't speak for others, but I thought at the start of the season that selling McCarthy made sense, simply because I thought we would be buying better players to take his place. I wouldn't advocate just selling him for the sake of it, but I would have liked us to get to a stage where he was not needed. Mori, Mirallas, Valencia etc all fall into the same category for me - they're not bad players but in an ideal world we will sign players in the summer who push them far enough down the pecking order for them not to be required anymore.

I agree McCarthy did well against Arsenal and Liverpool, I thought he played well against Bournemouth too. None of those things surprise me, because he's not a bad player. If we want to start going to places like WHL and winning though, not being a bad player isn't enough.

Fair points there. Hopefully this summer we will be able to strengthen in the most needed areas to make it possible for a top 4 challenge next season. I think Koeman will be pretty content with his midfield options though, it is elsewhere that we will need to strengthen.

With McCarthy though, I don't really think we could get many better back up squad players than him in that position. A top player would not be content in sitting on the bench often and even the best squads have players like that. The great Man United side in the 90's had Nicky Butt, James Milner has forged a career at being a journeyman playing for top 6 sides. Managers like to have players that can play in a few positions, and put in a shift when needed and I think McCarthy fits that criteria.
 
Koeman confirms more hamstring probs for McCarthy.



a real serious problem this because for whatever reason he continues to suffer with the same type of injury. Baffling that for a player who doesn't rely on pace that for over 2 seasons now he's struggled with his hamstrings and our medical team haven't got to the bottom of it.
 
Have to say his continual and apparently recurring hamstring problems are beginning to look increasingly ominous for his future with us.
 

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