Usmanov

[Frank Gallagher]

are we (Everton FC) better off with..

1. Usmanov and moshiri have FULL ownership of Everton

2. moshiri being the front man whilst usmanov bank rolls us from within Arsenal (legally speaking thro sponsorship and such)

3. there is NO difference between 1 and 2.

@davek @bluestevon @catcherintherye

 

[ham2]

Read somewhere usmanov paid moshiri 80 mill above market value for his arsenal shares, around same price he paid for efc shares, hmmmm!

 

[FugginGerryn]

One thing I don't understand is the theory that Usmanov, come what may, is/will be the main man at Everton whether it is official or not.

What would be in it for him if he was the man who made Everton great again (hopefully) if he is unable to take any credit for it? He may not crave publicity but, as I just asked, why would he want to take on the project, then sit by while someone else takes all the plaudits?...Not being able to attend all those finals we're getting in to.

 

[catcherintherye]

I think the esk's wishes are that Moshiri should be respected, as he says, as "the name over the door". I dont think it's a moot point either. If we accept Moshiri as a discrete entity operating outside Usmanov's empire then the Everton takeover can be more manageable form an expectations angle - with everyone accepting Moshiri as a "limited billionaire" who has to box clever and compromise and do deals over the long term. If we see him as Usmanovs cats paw then the pressure builds for a speedy solution to our problems and success in the short term is agitated for.

Yes I think that is fair mate. I was going to come back to you on the good point you made on loyalty and the need to preserve our academy. I think Moshiri gets that. I think it's why Unsworth stays and why money has been found for him to sign players. Moshiri has said publically it's important to continue the academy.

This is one aspect of "box clever". The ground is another as was clearing the debt. I don't think Moshiri should be automatically respected but people have to be careful going overboard in either direction.

We do a lot right. On the field the FT recently had a post showing we are the best in the division at spending cash. Only Spurs and Southampton come close. Reverting to City/Chelsea mega money approach (which we can't do to their extent even is Usmanov came tomorrow due to FFP) would throw a lot of that away. I like our approach currently. Do what we did well but with more funds while overhauling the comical off the field issues.

One thing you and esk both say and are right about though is impatience. It will take time. Like you when Koeman leaves I really hope we go for Unsworth rather than pursue a big name and give him the chance to develop a team as he's developed the under 23s.

So no Moshiri doesn't automatically get respect. However I think he's done ok so far. I like the direction we are heading.

 

[catcherintherye]

One thing I don't understand is the theory that Usmanov, come what may, is/will be the main man at Everton whether it is official or not.

What would be in it for him if he was the man who made Everton great again (hopefully) if he is unable to take any credit for it? He may not crave publicity but, as I just asked, why would he want to take on the project, then sit by while someone else takes all the plaudits?...Not being able to attend all those finals we're getting in to.

Probably money mate.

 

[bluestevon]

Aye, all are feasible. But if the big idea was to bail out and own Everton, or anyone else for that matter, why did he start the process by buying Moshiri out, then giving himself a monumental headache of how to get rid of 30%, instead of just selling his 15% to Moshiri, or the other lad?

The Russian bloke on the podcast reckons it could be facilitated btw. Just cant say how.

Honestly mate, there could be a whole host of reasons why. I know Paul sees this as a proof of his theory, why did moshiri come rather than usmanov.

Just a few theories on why this order could make sense in my eyes.

Kenwright would be more willing to sell to Moshiri, someone with a very palatable public image etc, OR Usmanov - someone with a lot of mud that can be thrown at him, someone with a somewhat murky past etc?

The financial restrictions would be identical regardless of who came in first, BUT as fans what would our expecrtations have been immediately should Usmanov have arrived as owner, hell look at what the expectations already leapt to with just Moshiri coming, the expectations and demands would have been utterly unrealistic and unobtainable should it have been Usmanov buying us out.

Moshiri is a small fish in comparison, the option to sneakily pump money into the club just staying the right side of legal would have had much more scrutiny and looked more suspect should moshiri be sponsoring an usmanov owned club IMO.

If it goes tits up, then usmanov isn't tarnished by the failiure, and trust me this club was in such a mess that only someone brave would have taken it on, moshiri is doing the clean up job, is facilitating the modernisation from top to bottom of the club, because frankly usmanov if he came first would have needed him for this anyways. The club in my opinion is being made professional enough so that Usmanov can actually take it to what his stated aims have always been in owning a club.

You don't become one of the richest men in the world by not knowing how to delegate certain jobs mate, question I have is why would doing it this,way not make perfect sense, especially if usmanov doesn't want to spend 2-3 years dealing with the likes of elstone, kenwright and Anderson/peel etc?

 

[catcherintherye]

The general view seems to be Usmanov will never be an EFC shareholder but will collaborate with and support Moshiri.

It will be an accounting and legal challenge as much as anything else, to stay on the right side of the authorities in that scenario as to what constitutes "fair value" for sponsorship.

The shirt and FF deals are an improvement if not anything spectacular.

It will be interesting to see what else is in the pipeline, although they really need to make a mark with transfer spending this summer to give me renewed optimism that we can mount a credible Top 4 challenge.

This is my suspicions as to what was meant when Usmanov would come on board. Over the next 3-4 years while the ground is being built I can't see much incentive to give much more. I think our new ground will be plastered with Russia sponsors and boxes filled with Russian companies.

 

[widnesblue]

Its a joint business venture for sure.

It will be everything they wanted Arsenal to be.

It sure is. High up officials in Liverpool council, police chief and politicians have been sold a promise by Moshiri and his team. I've had meetings with 3 high up officials in Liverpool in the last month, and they are very excited at the new ground and the revenue it can bring to Liverpool. I've got a meeting with two high up officials after the half term holidays so will try find out more information.

 

[catcherintherye]

Honestly mate, there could be a whole host of reasons why. I know Paul sees this as a proof of his theory, why did moshiri come rather than usmanov.

Just a few theories on why this order could make sense in my eyes.

Kenwright would be more willing to sell to Moshiri, someone with a very palatable public image etc, OR Usmanov - someone with a lot of mud that can be thrown at him, someone with a somewhat murky past etc?

The financial restrictions would be identical regardless of who came in first, BUT as fans what would our expecrtations have been immediately should Usmanov have arrived as owner, hell look at what the expectations already leapt to with just Moshiri coming, the expectations and demands would have been utterly unrealistic and unobtainable should it have been Usmanov buying us out.

Moshiri is a small fish in comparison, the option to sneakily pump money into the club just staying the right side of legal would have had much more scrutiny and looked more suspect should moshiri be sponsoring an usmanov owned club IMO.

If it goes tits up, then usmanov isn't tarnished by the failiure, and trust me this club was in such a mess that only someone brave would have taken it on, moshiri is doing the clean up job, is facilitating the modernisation from top to bottom of the club, because frankly usmanov if he came first would have needed him for this anyways. The club in my opinion is being made professional enough so that Usmanov can actually take it to what his stated aims have always been in owning a club.

You don't become one of the richest men in the world by not knowing how to delegate certain jobs mate, question I have is why would doing it this,way not make perfect sense, especially if usmanov doesn't want to spend 2-3 years dealing with the likes of elstone, kenwright and Anderson/peel etc?

You are right. There are lots of potential reasons. None of them may be rock solid but there are motives for him to sit tight. There are also motives for him to wait 3-4 years before he formally makes a move. Owning shares in Arsenal is never going to be a bad move!

 

[Mikeonlythebestwilldo]

This is my suspicions as to what was meant when Usmanov would come on board. Over the next 3-4 years while the ground is being built I can't see much incentive to give much more. I think our new ground will be plastered with Russia sponsors and boxes filled with Russian companies.

I wouldn't be surprised if the stadium is a big naming right funded from USM one of the companies mate

 

[The binman chronicles]

I think the esk's wishes are that Moshiri should be respected, as he says, as "the name over the door". I dont think it's a moot point either. If we accept Moshiri as a discrete entity operating outside Usmanov's empire then the Everton takeover can be more manageable form an expectations angle - with everyone accepting Moshiri as a "limited billionaire" who has to box clever and compromise and do deals over the long term. If we see him as Usmanovs cats paw then the pressure builds for a speedy solution to our problems and success in the short term is agitated for.

Doesn't matter if it's a limited Moshiri or we had Bill Gates who wanted to blow all his cash. It's the same, we are still bound by FFP, top top players will only come when the project picks up pace and we are really knocking on the door. To do that the infrastructure needs overhauling to earn the funds to pay massive wages and that takes time, nothing short term here I'm afraid.

 

[a bell maul]

I believe the 'optics' of the deal (whereby Moshiri's name 'over the door' is more 'palatable' than a Russian oligarch's), is the answer to the esk's question (ie why didn't Usmanov buy the Everton shares?).

Regardless, to my mind, the financial power behind the throne is defo the Uzbekistan bloke.

 

[widnesblue]

I wouldn't be surprised if the stadium is a big naming right funded from USM one of the companies mate

Or maybe his company is the one who are gonna be building the ground.

 

[catcherintherye]

I believe the 'optics' of the deal (whereby Moshiri's name 'over the door' is more 'palatable' than a Russian oligarch's), is the answer to the esk's question (ie why didn't Usmanov buy the Everton shares?).

Regardless, to my mind, the financial power behind the throne is defo the Uzbekistan bloke.

It may be that. It could also be that Moshiris skill set was more suited to what was required.

 

[a bell maul]

It may be that. It could also be that Moshiris skill set was more suited to what was required.

...agree with this as well. It was a 'horses for courses' arrangement, as well as just 'looking better'.

As an Evertonian, I'm pretty comfortable with how things have, and are being done.