Ronald Koeman discussion

[Barnfred 55]

You're giving cruel false hope to people. We are best of the rest and no more than that. That's fine for this season. Next season we have to be higher in the league and the season must remain in play competitively well beyond the new year.

Amongst all the RK bashing you do make some good posts and this is one of them.

Seventh will represent acceptable progress for the first season and is more realistic after our dreadful run of results and form in the autumn when the top 6 pulled away.

However we can finish 7th on 68 points or possibly as low as 58 points. We get the same prize money and possibly EL qualification either way, but one scenario says we're not that far away from breaking the "top 6" next year, and the other tells us we still have a mountain to climb.

 

[scratchnsurf]

I've never had much use for it, tbh.

Does that make you hopeless Dave?

 

[BlueToff]

You're giving cruel false hope to people. We are best of the rest and no more than that. That's fine for this season. Next season we have to be higher in the league and the season must remain in play competitively well beyond the new year.

'Best of the rest' will almost certainly get us Europe...

Also, it's what was clearly stated as the target right at the start. Top seven, pushing for Europe...

We're still on course for that - though we need to keep this momentum going - and have been all season...

 

[davek]

Amongst all the RK bashing you do make some good posts and this is one of them.

Seventh will represent acceptable progress for the first season and is more realistic after our dreadful run of results and form in the autumn when the top 6 pulled away.

However we can finish 7th on 68 points or possibly as low as 58 points. We get the same prize money and possibly EL qualification either way, but one scenario says we're not that far away from breaking the "top 6" next year, and the other tells us we still have a mountain to climb.

The worst thing that can happen to this team is qualify this season for the EL. I can see the dilemma: finishing 8th and out of the EL places for certain would look like not much progress has been made. Finishing 7th (though a mere one place above) is more saleable as progress because we have all now been spoon fed that 7th represents 'the best of the rest' (not in my view, but that's another debate).

Evertonians should pray that S'ton beat Liverpool tonight and get one of those EL spots, and that a possible route into the EL via the FA Cup goes a similar way. Next season will be carnage in the PL if this lot are playing Thursday/Sunday on a regular basis.

 

[davek]

'Best of the rest' will almost certainly get us Europe...

Also, it's what was clearly stated as the target right at the start. Top seven, pushing for Europe...

We're still on course for that - though we need to keep this momentum going - and have been all season...

Yes, something I mention above.

 

[Khalekan]

You're giving cruel false hope to people. We are best of the rest and no more than that. That's fine for this season. Next season we have to be higher in the league and the season must remain in play competitively well beyond the new year.

Dave you are falling into the "Super Six" trap.

5th place is still "best of the rest" and will remain so while only the top four go into the CL.

 

[Goat]

The worst thing that can happen to this team is qualify this season for the EL. I can see the dilemma: finishing 8th and out of the EL places for certain would look like not much progress has been made. Finishing 7th (though a mere one place above) is more saleable as progress because we have all now been spoon fed that 7th represents 'the best of the rest' (not in my view, but that's another debate).

Evertonians should pray that S'ton beat Liverpool tonight and get one of those EL spots, and that a possible route into the EL via the FA Cup goes a similar way. Next season will be carnage in the PL if this lot are playing Thursday/Sunday on a regular basis.

Why David?

Under Moyes it never bothered us, we managed to play the Europa without it affecting our league position, in order to progress we need European football, our current players crave it and any new players we show interest in will also require it. Its a total myth that the Europa ruins seasons, maybe it does for bad managers who cant build squads.

To progress as a football club we need European football, are you suggesting we dont try and qualify for the CL in the future, cos it destroys seasons?

And if we finished 8th, it would show progress, in case your not aware, we have finished 11th for 2 seasons, 8th would be massive progress, but as I keep saying, we have a fighting chance at finishing in the top 4, here Dave, drink from my cup.

 

[Titus Bramble]

If we want to attract the next level of player and keep our current best, we need European football sooner rather than later.

It's up to the manager to build a squad with enough quality and depth to handle the extra games

Also, nothing beats a European game under the lights at the old lady

 

[toffeeblue9]

The worst thing that can happen to this team is qualify this season for the EL. I can see the dilemma: finishing 8th and out of the EL places for certain would look like not much progress has been made. Finishing 7th (though a mere one place above) is more saleable as progress because we have all now been spoon fed that 7th represents 'the best of the rest' (not in my view, but that's another debate).

Evertonians should pray that S'ton beat Liverpool tonight and get one of those EL spots, and that a possible route into the EL via the FA Cup goes a similar way. Next season will be carnage in the PL if this lot are playing Thursday/Sunday on a regular basis.

Oh really?

 

[davek]

Why David?

Under Moyes it never bothered us, we managed to play the Europa without it affecting our league position, in order to progress we need European football, our current players crave it and any new players we show interest in will also require it. Its a total myth that the Europa ruins seasons, maybe it does for bad managers who cant build squads.

To progress as a football club we need European football, are you suggesting we dont try and qualify for the CL in the future, cos it destroys seasons?

And if we finished 8th, it would show progress, in case your not aware, we have finished 11th for 2 seasons, 8th would be massive progress, but as I keep saying, we have a fighting chance at finishing in the top 4, here Dave, drink from my cup.

No mate. When we we were with Moyes and he had us in Europe he had a settled team - he was about 3/4 seasons into his time here and had time to build that first squad of his up and have them playing...and, btw, we always struggled until the second half of the season until we were out of that ridiculous competition. The EL is basically like the Battle of the Somme. You fight like crazy to get two yards forward.

...and 8th would be nothing. Absolutely nothing. As is 7th, btw, it was nothing under Moyes (as you well know and others do because we took the piss out of the 7th placed trophy often enough, and it is so still...no matter how many mugs want to fall for the 'Sensational Top Six' nonsense now being bandied about to excuse mediocrity in the PL).

 

[BlueToff]

Yes, something I mention above.

Re-read your post after pal, and I agree.

It's as good a place as any to build on.

Two disappointments for me so far this season:

- The cups, obviously

- Throwing away points during that poor run - e.g. Burnley, Swansea etc. That'd have seen us well in the mix.

It is what it is though. If the RS are still title contenders, then by the same logic, we're still contenders for Europe. And if Liverpool beat Saints and United get through as well (which is likely) then we're in pole position for Europe.

 

[BlueToff]

Oh really?


View attachment 33760

Fantastic effort with the vaults

 

[davek]

Re-read your post after pal, and I agree.

It's as good a place as any to build on.

Two disappointments for me so far this season:

- The cups, obviously

- Throwing away points during that poor run - e.g. Burnley, Swansea etc. That'd have seen us well in the mix.

It is what it is though. If the RS are still title contenders, then by the same logic, we're still contenders for Europe. And if Liverpool beat Saints and United get through as well (which is likely) then we're in pole position for Europe.

...so far. The season still has a third to go. I dont see us maintaining this run and there will be another dip. It's what Koeman teams do, imo.

We'll end up on 60-62 points and in 7th. Acceptable first season for Koeman. Then he has to get into the top 5/6 next season, and after that (if he's still here) he needs to get top 4/5.

 

[Barnfred 55]

The worst thing that can happen to this team is qualify this season for the EL. I can see the dilemma: finishing 8th and out of the EL places for certain would look like not much progress has been made. Finishing 7th (though a mere one place above) is more saleable as progress because we have all now been spoon fed that 7th represents 'the best of the rest' (not in my view, but that's another debate).

Evertonians should pray that S'ton beat Liverpool tonight and get one of those EL spots, and that a possible route into the EL via the FA Cup goes a similar way. Next season will be carnage in the PL if this lot are playing Thursday/Sunday on a regular basis.

I agree EL can be a poisoned chalice. I've never got my head round this Thurs/Sun thing but teams do seem to struggle with it.

But if we're going to ever make the step up as a club we're just going to have to keatn to cope with 2 games per week and the sooner we start the better imo.

 

[Goat]

No mate. When we we were with Moyes and he had us in Europe he had a settled team - he was about 3/4 seasons into his time here and had time to build that first squad of his up and have them playing...and, btw, we always struggled until the second half of the season until we were out of that ridiculous competition. The EL is basically like the Battle of the Somme. You fight like crazy to get two yards forward.

...and 8th would be nothing. Absolutely nothing. As is 7th, btw, it was nothing under Moyes (as you well know and others do because we took the piss out of the 7th placed trophy often enough, and it is so still...no matter how many mugs want to fall for the 'Sensational Top Six' nonsense now being bandied about to excuse mediocrity in the PL).

7th would show progress tho, its an improvement, as ive said, I just want to improve every season, so 7th this season would be a massive improvement on 11th, next season I will be expecting a lot more, but we need Europa League to attract those higher tier players, the higher tier players are the 1s that propel teams to the promised land.

But we can improve on 7th this season, ive no doubt in that, I mean the teams above us arent settled, United have a new manager, the vermins season is starting to fray, they are there to be got at, but we just need to worry about us for now, take every game as it comes, prepare, do what we can and then see where it takes us.