Ronald Koeman discussion

Status
Not open for further replies.

rochdaleblue said:
Nothing to really disagree with in any of that article.
Click to expand...
It was very fair.

Full article for anyone interested:

"Seven months. It is a long time to wait for a meaningful match, especially for a club of Everton’s stature and history. Yet arguably their next significant match is so far away they know neither the opponent nor the venue. It is next season. Some may feel that is hyperbolic. After all, Everton host Manchester City on Sunday. April alone contains meetings with Liverpool, Manchester United and Chelsea: none can easily be dismissed as irrelevant. Yet the fact is that Saturday’s FA Cup exit to Leicester means their trophy drought will extend into a 23rd year. The Premier League’s top six are so distant that the best they can realistically hope for is seventh position. After successive 11th-place finishes, it would offer the illusion of progress. Yet neither a demanding crowd nor a demanding manager is likely to be satisfied.

Ronald Koeman has spent January becoming ever more vocal in his complaints about what he interprets as Everton’s board’s delay in signing, particularly Memphis Depay and Morgan Schneiderlin, even if Charlton’s teenage forward Ademola Lookman has already arrived. He implies the job is not quite what he thought it would be. Everton may wonder if the same could be said of Koeman himself. Koeman was hired as the north-west’s fourth managerial Galactico, Everton’s answer to Jose Mourinho, Pep Guardiola and Jurgen Klopp. While Koeman has insisted he does not see it as another short-term assignment, his track record suggests otherwise. His capacity to effect an immediate improvement formed part of his appeal to Everton.

But quick fixes have proved insufficient. This, Koeman is fast discovering, is a long-term project. Now he gives the impression of a man who overestimated his inheritance. He has improved Everton’s defence — not hard, given some of their displays under Roberto Martinez — but not as much as first appeared. And they have regressed as an attacking force. Until Everton went into meltdown in their final few weeks under Martinez, they were at least consistently creative last season. Not now. With some success, Koeman adopted a more direct, urgent approach in the home games against United and Arsenal. Everton’s supposedly sleek cats revisited their past as dogs of war.

Yet there is no real pattern of play. The flair players continue to be conundrums. Rewind to August and Koeman’s invention seemed set to rejuvenate Gerard Deulofeu, Kevin Mirallas and Ross Barkley. Now the Spaniard looks likely to leave, the Belgian is on the bench and the Englishman remains an enigma. Yannick Bolasie, his biggest buy, flattered to deceive and sustained an injury that may rule him out until 2018. Romelu Lukaku’s goal return is respectable but he has not kicked on. Go back to the start of the season and Koeman’s team was built around Phil Jagielka and Gareth Barry, a pragmatist appearing to believe neither needed replacing for a future he may not be around to oversee. Now, neither veteran may be in his strongest side. The shift to rough-and-ready football can render Barry irrelevant – an immobile passer is of little use when a side has 32 or 41 per cent of possession, as Everton did against Liverpool and Arsenal, respectively. Both captain and senior professional have declined faster than they run. Koeman’s sides have been patched up, notable for inclusions such as Enner Valencia, on loan after failing to sign strikers he actually wanted, and James McCarthy, who he initially underrated. Now he only seems truly happy with Idrissa Gueye and the 19-year-old midfielder Tom Davies. Everton appear a side who, over the next two transfer windows, require six major additions. But it is telling that Koeman’s five summer signings are 34, 32, 27, 27 and 27. He arrived intent upon putting the roof on, not laying the foundations Everton now need. Hence his frustration.

Yet an impatient manager has to bide his time. Everton have to wait until August for games to acquire the magnitude of those that really matter."
 
njligernj said:
I am aware it was my friend however it's also the impression a lot of fans, the media and the players have too. So I used it as a jumping off point to discuss that topic even though I didn't think you literally believed it to be true.

Don't believe me? Well I don't believe the people who replied to the joke (or at least I thought it was a joke I could be wrong) someone made about Koeman not knowing what a football looks like:










You see it seems to me you are all more than happy to pick up the low hanging fruit but when someone challenges the nonsensical platitudes that people here throw around like they actually mean something -- see "bottler" -- everyone decides that all of sudden it's beneath them ... when in truth they want the easiest possible target and don't like the idea of having to do a bunch of work just to prove someone wrong when it's so much easier to just join in with whatever nonsense pile on is happening at that moment.

So we can have an entire page of people piling on the Koeman football bloke (doesn't matter if he was joking or not it's a page of zero new information) and we can have a whole page of people just saying in one word how much they aren't bothered by someone's argument (all mod approved activities) but what is actively discouraged and openly mocked by mods is long in depth discussion. (They will argue it's just me but this pattern repeats itself all over the site -- mods believe the problem of online discussion is too complex so they choose to reduce their job to a simpler set of tasks: ensure people don't swear etc.)

I don't believe the ten+ people who were so desperate to make it publicly known they aren't bothered by my argument (nor the mod who said he doesn't read posts). That's fine ... they don't believe me. The problem is I am consistent (I've been doing complex multi-quotes for a decade back when they got 30+ likes per post because I was saying what people wanted to hear) and you've all (well many of you ... the "groupthink" of GoT anyway) completely changed your tune and are acting like that isn't what has happened.
Click to expand...

Que?
 
njligernj said:
I am aware it was my friend however it's also the impression a lot of fans, the media and the players have too. So I used it as a jumping off point to discuss that topic even though I didn't think you literally believed it to be true.

Don't believe me? Well I don't believe the people who replied to the joke (or at least I thought it was a joke I could be wrong) someone made about Koeman not knowing what a football looks like:










You see it seems to me you are all more than happy to pick up the low hanging fruit but when someone challenges the nonsensical platitudes that people here throw around like they actually mean something -- see "bottler" -- everyone decides that all of sudden it's beneath them ... when in truth they want the easiest possible target and don't like the idea of having to do a bunch of work just to prove someone wrong when it's so much easier to just join in with whatever nonsense pile on is happening at that moment.

So we can have an entire page of people piling on the Koeman football bloke (doesn't matter if he was joking or not it's a page of zero new information) and we can have a whole page of people just saying in one word how much they aren't bothered by someone's argument (all mod approved activities) but what is actively discouraged and openly mocked by mods is long in depth discussion. (They will argue it's just me but this pattern repeats itself all over the site -- mods believe the problem of online discussion is too complex so they choose to reduce their job to a simpler set of tasks: ensure people don't swear etc.)

I don't believe the ten+ people who were so desperate to make it publicly known they aren't bothered by my argument (nor the mod who said he doesn't read posts). That's fine ... they don't believe me. The problem is I am consistent (I've been doing complex multi-quotes for a decade back when they got 30+ likes per post because I was saying what people wanted to hear) and you've all (well many of you ... the "groupthink" of GoT anyway) completely changed your tune and are acting like that isn't what has happened.
Click to expand...
Waste of a post as most won't read the nonsense similar to what was originally posted by your mate. Lost me after the first line
 
ijjysmith said:
Because I prefer a manager who speaks his mind and the truth rather than saying everything is great while all our eyes see that it is not.

It's refreshing and I like it.

Now give me Michaela Strachan's mobile number and we can leave this as it is.
Click to expand...

image.webp


She's starting to bear an uncanny resemblance to Worzel Gummidge nowadays
 

njligernj said:
I am aware it was my friend however it's also the impression a lot of fans, the media and the players have too. So I used it as a jumping off point to discuss that topic even though I didn't think you literally believed it to be true.

Don't believe me? Well I don't believe the people who replied to the joke (or at least I thought it was a joke I could be wrong) someone made about Koeman not knowing what a football looks like:










You see it seems to me you are all more than happy to pick up the low hanging fruit but when someone challenges the nonsensical platitudes that people here throw around like they actually mean something -- see "bottler" -- everyone decides that all of sudden it's beneath them ... when in truth they want the easiest possible target and don't like the idea of having to do a bunch of work just to prove someone wrong when it's so much easier to just join in with whatever nonsense pile on is happening at that moment.

So we can have an entire page of people piling on the Koeman football bloke (doesn't matter if he was joking or not it's a page of zero new information) and we can have a whole page of people just saying in one word how much they aren't bothered by someone's argument (all mod approved activities) but what is actively discouraged and openly mocked by mods is long in depth discussion. (They will argue it's just me but this pattern repeats itself all over the site -- mods believe the problem of online discussion is too complex so they choose to reduce their job to a simpler set of tasks: ensure people don't swear etc.)

I don't believe the ten+ people who were so desperate to make it publicly known they aren't bothered by my argument (nor the mod who said he doesn't read posts). That's fine ... they don't believe me. The problem is I am consistent (I've been doing complex multi-quotes for a decade back when they got 30+ likes per post because I was saying what people wanted to hear) and you've all (well many of you ... the "groupthink" of GoT anyway) completely changed your tune and are acting like that isn't what has happened.
Click to expand...


So...do you like him or not then?
 
davek said:
Spot on this: http://www.thenational.ae/sport/eng...-difficult-job-than-ronald-koeman-anticipated

Apologis if already posted.
Click to expand...

I'd missed that when scouring today, it's a good (if slightly depressing read)...I shall attempt to remain positive and see what the window brings.

Of course, should he get - more or less - what he wants and it fails to gel/improve then I'll be concerned.

I want to think differently, and I've been advised differently...but I wouldn't be wholly surprised if this was the only business done this window.

I hope not like.
 
njligernj said:
I am aware it was my friend however it's also the impression a lot of fans, the media and the players have too. So I used it as a jumping off point to discuss that topic even though I didn't think you literally believed it to be true.

Don't believe me? Well I don't believe the people who replied to the joke (or at least I thought it was a joke I could be wrong) someone made about Koeman not knowing what a football looks like:










You see it seems to me you are all more than happy to pick up the low hanging fruit but when someone challenges the nonsensical platitudes that people here throw around like they actually mean something -- see "bottler" -- everyone decides that all of sudden it's beneath them ... when in truth they want the easiest possible target and don't like the idea of having to do a bunch of work just to prove someone wrong when it's so much easier to just join in with whatever nonsense pile on is happening at that moment.

So we can have an entire page of people piling on the Koeman football bloke (doesn't matter if he was joking or not it's a page of zero new information) and we can have a whole page of people just saying in one word how much they aren't bothered by someone's argument (all mod approved activities) but what is actively discouraged and openly mocked by mods is long in depth discussion. (They will argue it's just me but this pattern repeats itself all over the site -- mods believe the problem of online discussion is too complex so they choose to reduce their job to a simpler set of tasks: ensure people don't swear etc.)

I don't believe the ten+ people who were so desperate to make it publicly known they aren't bothered by my argument (nor the mod who said he doesn't read posts). That's fine ... they don't believe me. The problem is I am consistent (I've been doing complex multi-quotes for a decade back when they got 30+ likes per post because I was saying what people wanted to hear) and you've all (well many of you ... the "groupthink" of GoT anyway) completely changed your tune and are acting like that isn't what has happened.
Click to expand...
Would ya ever shut up ?
 
davek said:
It was very fair.

Full article for anyone interested:

"Seven months. It is a long time to wait for a meaningful match, especially for a club of Everton’s stature and history. Yet arguably their next significant match is so far away they know neither the opponent nor the venue. It is next season. Some may feel that is hyperbolic. After all, Everton host Manchester City on Sunday. April alone contains meetings with Liverpool, Manchester United and Chelsea: none can easily be dismissed as irrelevant. Yet the fact is that Saturday’s FA Cup exit to Leicester means their trophy drought will extend into a 23rd year. The Premier League’s top six are so distant that the best they can realistically hope for is seventh position. After successive 11th-place finishes, it would offer the illusion of progress. Yet neither a demanding crowd nor a demanding manager is likely to be satisfied.

Ronald Koeman has spent January becoming ever more vocal in his complaints about what he interprets as Everton’s board’s delay in signing, particularly Memphis Depay and Morgan Schneiderlin, even if Charlton’s teenage forward Ademola Lookman has already arrived. He implies the job is not quite what he thought it would be. Everton may wonder if the same could be said of Koeman himself. Koeman was hired as the north-west’s fourth managerial Galactico, Everton’s answer to Jose Mourinho, Pep Guardiola and Jurgen Klopp. While Koeman has insisted he does not see it as another short-term assignment, his track record suggests otherwise. His capacity to effect an immediate improvement formed part of his appeal to Everton.

But quick fixes have proved insufficient. This, Koeman is fast discovering, is a long-term project. Now he gives the impression of a man who overestimated his inheritance. He has improved Everton’s defence — not hard, given some of their displays under Roberto Martinez — but not as much as first appeared. And they have regressed as an attacking force. Until Everton went into meltdown in their final few weeks under Martinez, they were at least consistently creative last season. Not now. With some success, Koeman adopted a more direct, urgent approach in the home games against United and Arsenal. Everton’s supposedly sleek cats revisited their past as dogs of war.

Yet there is no real pattern of play. The flair players continue to be conundrums. Rewind to August and Koeman’s invention seemed set to rejuvenate Gerard Deulofeu, Kevin Mirallas and Ross Barkley. Now the Spaniard looks likely to leave, the Belgian is on the bench and the Englishman remains an enigma. Yannick Bolasie, his biggest buy, flattered to deceive and sustained an injury that may rule him out until 2018. Romelu Lukaku’s goal return is respectable but he has not kicked on. Go back to the start of the season and Koeman’s team was built around Phil Jagielka and Gareth Barry, a pragmatist appearing to believe neither needed replacing for a future he may not be around to oversee. Now, neither veteran may be in his strongest side. The shift to rough-and-ready football can render Barry irrelevant – an immobile passer is of little use when a side has 32 or 41 per cent of possession, as Everton did against Liverpool and Arsenal, respectively. Both captain and senior professional have declined faster than they run. Koeman’s sides have been patched up, notable for inclusions such as Enner Valencia, on loan after failing to sign strikers he actually wanted, and James McCarthy, who he initially underrated. Now he only seems truly happy with Idrissa Gueye and the 19-year-old midfielder Tom Davies. Everton appear a side who, over the next two transfer windows, require six major additions. But it is telling that Koeman’s five summer signings are 34, 32, 27, 27 and 27. He arrived intent upon putting the roof on, not laying the foundations Everton now need. Hence his frustration.

Yet an impatient manager has to bide his time. Everton have to wait until August for games to acquire the magnitude of those that really matter."
Click to expand...


Go on admit it, you wrote that didn't you !
 

I do wonder to what extent Koeman has acted in the way he has due to how many people perceived the board under Kenwright and the teams performance under Martinez.

Publicly calling out the board on lack of transfer activity - it's been well known that under Kenwright the club suffered due to lack of investment - Neither Moyes or Martinez to their shame appeared to question the board over it.

The players were obviously unfit under Martinez and cost us points - he automatically declares the players unfit when he walks through the doors and views it as a priority to improve.

The style of football under Martinez was deemed pretty but dull and ineffective - he therefore addresses it by demanding a far more direct style.

Given the above Koeman may in fact have a wider and more agenda driven view of the situation than some imagine. If so, I applaud him for spotting the issues - a shame I think he's never really going to take us to any real heights due to his managerial shortcomings.
 
Khalekan said:
A great article and one which reflects a lot of what you have been pointing out on here for several months now, Dave ;)
Click to expand...
The lack of a discernible style week in week out (apart from a commitment to go long when under pressure) has been disorienting. I think that's what the article picks up on.

When you compare this first season of Koeman's to other managers who hit the ground running it really is heavy weather he's made of it.

But ok, we have more of HIS preferred players in now, so things will be better from now on........o_O
 

Status
Not open for further replies.

Welcome

Join Grand Old Team to get involved in the Everton discussion. Signing up is quick, easy, and completely free.

Register

Shop

Back
Top