Ronald Koeman discussion

Papa Shango · December 22, 2016

Khalekan said:
Martinez only had three years because of the first season.

If that had gone the same way as the two subsequent seasons he would have been gone after eighteen months.

Ditto with Koeman.....if we are still in the same rut this time next year as we are now he will have very few supporters left on this forum and his tenure will be coming close to ending.

Underachieving managers don't get three years no moah......not even at Everton.

get out of my mind!

Papa Shango · December 22, 2016

Jacko93 said:
Remind me, how many first team minutes has Calvin Lewis played for us?

20 too many.

Get rid. He hasnt even scored a hat trick yet.

Boooooo!

hktoffee · December 22, 2016

Khalekan said:
Martinez only had three years because of the first season.

If that had gone the same way as the two subsequent seasons he would have been gone after eighteen months.

Ditto with Koeman.....if we are still in the same rut this time next year as we are now he will have very few supporters left on this forum and his tenure will be coming close to ending.

Underachieving managers don't get three years no moah......not even at Everton.

True in partincular if he has money to spend in the next 2 windows and 18 months into his job.

Jacko93 · December 22, 2016

Papa Shango said:
20 too many.

Get rid. He hasnt even scored a hat trick yet.

Boooooo!

Fair point.

hktoffee · December 22, 2016

Papa Shango said:
This line of thinking is beginning to annoy me (not by you specifically by the way...)

Martinez got 3 years because the wheels fell off half way through season two. If he was the same at the beginning than he was at the end then he would have been getting questions asked too. Similarly if Koeman started off how Martinez did then he would be getting less questions asked of him.

Of course he needs time, but 3 years seems to be an accepted amount these days. If he is crap he is crap, you dont need 3 years to prove that.

I'm not saying he is crap by the way either....

Mate I am not saying give Koeman 3 years if he keeps on like this but say if he has money to spend in the next two windows and we are still in the same position like now this time next year I am sure most of the fans will make up their mind.

Khalekan · December 22, 2016

ijjysmith said:
Football only started in 1992 didn't it?

Oh yes....

summerisle · December 22, 2016

Press conference :

https://www.periscope.tv/w/1kvJpdBPqlLJE#

davek · December 22, 2016

moyes cardy said:
No no no. The decline started at least 18 months ago and RM did nothing to stop it. Koeman is trying to at least get them more solid and compete - not easy with the current group. If not mistaken were on the same number of points as the same stage last year, so worse no - stabilised decline the next month or so will decide that along with the players he brings in. Without question RM would have took us down with plaudits of being the best relegated passing team!

I dont care about "trying to get them more solid" - he has tasked the back four with no duty other than to boot the ball downfield to safety, so I EXPECT less mistakes at the back...unfortunately for Koeman he even fails to make significant inroads here:

last season after 17 games we conceded 24 goals
this season after 17 games we conceded 21 goals

...not much to show for 'being more solid' like is it?...and we'd scored 10 more goals this time last season than we have right now.

Basically he's sacrificed our football brain and attacking intent for a hoof ball game and it's got us worse off.

Mikeonlythebestwilldo · December 22, 2016

davek said:
I dont care about "trying to get them more solid" - he has tasked the back four with no duty other than to boot the ball downfield to safety, so I EXPECT less mistakes at the back...unfortunately for Koeman he even fails to make significant inroads here:

last season after 17 games we conceded 24 goals
this season after 17 games we conceded 21 goals

...not much to show for 'being more solid' like is it?...and we'd scored 10 more goals this time last season than we have right now.

Basically he's sacrificed our football brain and attacking intent for a hoof ball game and it's got us worse off.

3 less then martinez then davek

davek · December 22, 2016

Kev The Rat said:
TBF Dave credit to you - you called Koeman a fraud early doors and saw through his route 1 tactics instantly. I didn't agree with your opinion of Martinez but I can see this guy is much worse. Cant see where we move on from this now beyond cutting him loose and preferably by the end of the season.

I'd give him another two windows and this time next season to improve things drastically. I think he or anyone else deserves at least a season or so to prove themselves.

However, I refuse to be told that Koeman is on track or making anything other than an utter balls up of this team as things stand. I and others know what we see: a hopeless hoofball strategy conducted by a man who fails to accept his responsibility for it. This is his watch now and it has been for 6 months. He's had time enough to get on top of things. He has to be judged on his own merits in terms of how he integrates his own signings with what we had before he arrived. IMO, he's done an absolutely shocking job.

davek · December 22, 2016

Mikeonlythebestwilldo said:
3 less then martinez then davek

Yeah, outstanding given the fact that we dont play out from the back and get most of the team at all times behind the ball, isn't it?

Hurrah - three less goals conceded than over the same period last season. What a leap forward we've got defensively to make up for the fact we have ZERO ATTACKING THREAT anymore.

hktoffee · December 22, 2016

davek said:
I dont care about "trying to get them more solid" - he has tasked the back four with no duty other than to boot the ball downfield to safety, so I EXPECT less mistakes at the back...unfortunately for Koeman he even fails to make significant inroads here:

last season after 17 games we conceded 24 goals
this season after 17 games we conceded 21 goals

...not much to show for 'being more solid' like is it?...and we'd scored 10 more goals this time last season than we have right now.

Basically he's sacrificed our football brain and attacking intent for a hoof ball game and it's got us worse off.

The climax of last season was after the new year. 21 points from 20 games. If you say give Koeman next two windows to prove then let's wait till this time next season to judge. It seems you are calling his head whenever we lose.

davek · December 22, 2016

hktoffee said:
The climax of last season was after the new year. 21 points from 20 games. If you say give Koeman next two windows to prove then let's wait till this time next season to judge. It seems you are calling his head whenever we lose.

That's just not true: I'm saying give him time, but let's judge what's happened so far without any rose tinted glasses.

hktoffee · December 22, 2016

davek said:
That's just not true: I'm saying give him time, but let's judge what's happened so far without any rose tinted glasses.

You just said this mate: "I'd give him another two windows and this time next season to improve things drastically. I think he or anyone else deserves at least a season or so to prove themselves."

I will say give him time to improve this weak bottom half squad.

Eggs · December 22, 2016

davek said:
I'd give him another two windows and this time next season to improve things drastically. I think he or anyone else deserves at least a season or so to prove themselves.

However, I refuse to be told that Koeman is on track or making anything other than an utter balls up of this team as things stand. I and others know what we see: a hopeless hoofball strategy conducted by a man who fails to accept his responsibility for it. This is his watch now and it has been for 6 months. He's had time enough to get on top of things. He has to be judged on his own merits in terms of how he integrates his own signings with what we had before he arrived. IMO, he's done an absolutely shocking job.

...I think this is fair enough. I admit to not being convinced, decisions like bringing on DC-L on right side midfield on Monday are odd, as was the balance on the bench but I accept change comes with angst and disappointments. I hope we see signs in this window of what RK is aiming for and we should have more idea by this time next season.

I would disagree with the hoofball 'strategy'. The stats support the view that we are a long ball team but if we're giving him 2 or 3 windows I think we also have to give him time to define his style of play. At this point it might be more tactical than strategic, with his type of players we might see something different. Only time will tell.