Ronald Koeman discussion

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davek said:
Mate, do you really think that I felt Koeman surpassing 72 points was ever a serious proposition? There's no way he could do it. First of all: yes, morale had to be rebuilt. Second (and more importantly) you have to have a managerial mindset that goes for three points week in week out...and that isn't Koeman - just as it wasn't Moyes.

I've said before that realistically that mark wont be hit again until we have an owner who'll throw another £100M at the first team squad.
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You know EXACTLY what you're doing, you little rascal you.
 
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GrandOldTeam said:
Really mate?

Really?...



Exactly. That's what loads on here were bemused at when you did nothing but harp on about Martinez being judged unfairly on his debut season - a one off you said.

Now, here you are advocating that season as the benchmark for Koeman.

Quick reminder;



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Ok, the use of the word 'benchmark' is there. However, the point being consistently made (and I made it in this thread before you posted that archive stuff) is that a manager cant be slaughtered over not reaching that 72 points total because it was a freak down to Martinez's go for broke style. I said above I dont expect any Everton manager to reach it again until massive squad investment is made.

It's a total we should aim for. In that respect it is a target rather than a benchmark. Just loose language, but the substantive point stands.
 
davek said:
Ok, the use of the word 'benchmark' is there. However, the point being consistently made (and I made it in this thread before you posted that archive stuff) is that a manager cant be slaughtered over not reaching that 72 points total because it was a freak down to Martinez's go for broke style. I said above I dont expect any Everton manager to reach it again until massive squad investment is made.

It's a total we should aim for. In that respect it is a target rather than a benchmark. Just loose language, but the substantive point stands.
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The salient point is, that you accepted the last 2 seasons league placings and points totals from Mr Phenomenal as being 'par', therefore anything that beats that it is an improvement and NOT the cherry picking of Martinez first seasons stats to beat Koeman with.

You're snookered here Mr K :)
 
Koeman ain't all that let's face it, most of us knew that before we even got him, on top of that and he has that bunch of self indulged arses to manage, a recipe for disaster and one I'm afraid may be unavoidable.
 
Foot Long Hot Dog said:
The salient point is, that you accepted the last 2 seasons league placings and points totals from Mr Phenomenal as being 'par', therefore anything that beats that it is an improvement and NOT the cherry picking of Martinez first seasons stats to beat Koeman with.

You're snookered here Mr K :)
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Not a bit of it. No snoopers to get out of. Sorry.

It was a colossal first season points total that Martinez could never hope to achieve in that second season because the EL fixtures cut across the season, and even if PL form had held up better it'd still never have gotten near that total. His third season here the players, after a decent first 12 games or so, completely lost faith in the manager and the supporters lost faith with both manager and players. It had to end.

In the same way - and it's one I've consistently argued both now and in the past - I've stated that no manager who succeeds Martinez will ever get that total number of points in a season unless the squad is bankrolled significantly. Short of getting a complete genius in who can plait sawdust, that remains our best hope of toppling that record. But we shouldn't stop aiming for it, that remains its significance.
 

davek said:
Not a bit of it. No snoopers to get out of. Sorry.

It was a colossal first season points total that Martinez could never hope to achieve in that second season because the EL fixtures cut across the season, and even if PL form had held up better it'd still never have gotten near that total. His third season here the players, after a decent first 12 games or so, completely lost faith in the manager and the supporters lost faith with both manager and players. It had to end.

In the same way - and it's one I've consistently argued both now and in the past - I've stated that no manager who succeeds Martinez will ever get that total number of points in a season unless the squad is bankrolled significantly. Short of getting a complete genius in who can plait sawdust, that remains our best hope of toppling that record. But we shouldn't stop aiming for it, that remains its significance.
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Whilst the EL fixtures are of course a mitigating factor, to say they are the overriding reason just isn't true.

You and I with others defended Martinez to the hilt but there is no getting away from the fact that after the first season he utterly failed in the transfer market.

He failed to bring in a third-choice CB, instead relying upon John Stones being ready. He wasn't.
Failed to plan for life after Howard. He himself said he didn't think Robles would ever 'be himself' at Everton.
Failed to replace Deulofeu's pace/invention.
Failed to bring in a different option to Lukaku.

Whilst I am sure you will respond with "where is the cash?", we now know that it isn't always about that.

Slaven Bilic is going through exactly the same. Great first season, fails to bring in players to challenge what he already has and what he got every ounce out of the year before....slippery slope.

I personally think Koeman does deserve some criticism for last summer, whether that's with Walsh/Moshiri I don't know.

We finished poorly the last 2 years and therefore "giving the players a chance" for me is the wrong decision. I understand coming in and binning off 6/7 players may upset the dressing room but could any of the remaining players have really had a problem with it?

The following...

Cleverley - what role does he fulfil?
Oviedo - such a terrible player it hurts
Mirrallas - has had too many chances and not seized any of them
Lennon - what role does he fulfil?
Funes Mori - probably am being harsh - he's just so rash
Gibson - what role does he fulfil?
Robles - is he ever going to be a number 1?
Besic - the most bizarre, overrated footballer we have. what role does he fulfil?!

Koeman has to bring in 4 or 5 bodies this january. He now knows what was obvious on his first day, we are cack in so many areas.
 
mkrudden said:
Whilst the EL fixtures are of course a mitigating factor, to say they are the overriding reason just isn't true.

You and I with others defended Martinez to the hilt but there is no getting away from the fact that after the first season he utterly failed in the transfer market.

He failed to bring in a third-choice CB, instead relying upon John Stones being ready. He wasn't.
Failed to plan for life after Howard. He himself said he didn't think Robles would ever 'be himself' at Everton.
Failed to replace Deulofeu's pace/invention.
Failed to bring in a different option to Lukaku.

Whilst I am sure you will respond with "where is the cash?", we now know that it isn't always about that.

Slaven Bilic is going through exactly the same. Great first season, fails to bring in players to challenge what he already has and what he got every ounce out of the year before....slippery slope.

I personally think Koeman does deserve some criticism for last summer, whether that's with Walsh/Moshiri I don't know.

We finished poorly the last 2 years and therefore "giving the players a chance" for me is the wrong decision. I understand coming in and binning off 6/7 players may upset the dressing room but could any of the remaining players have really had a problem with it?

The following...

Cleverley - what role does he fulfil?
Oviedo - such a terrible player it hurts
Mirrallas - has had too many chances and not seized any of them
Lennon - what role does he fulfil?
Funes Mori - probably am being harsh - he's just so rash
Gibson - what role does he fulfil?
Robles - is he ever going to be a number 1?
Besic - the most bizarre, overrated footballer we have. what role does he fulfil?!

Koeman has to bring in 4 or 5 bodies this january. He now knows what was obvious on his first day, we are cack in so many areas.
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Complete and utter rubbish...
 

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