Let's not kid ourselves

[brieverton]

I think 7th-8th would be acceptable with the squad we have. Even one decent signing offensively could make a difference in January. The aim there should be to improve the squad rather than necessarily buying the finished article. I don't accept that there aren't enough decent players within our budget and attractiveness.

 

[blue61]

I suppose he was sacked for raising expectation for that 5th placed finish in his 1st season, if he'd done it the other way round everything would have been good. You tend to to get teams performing for a short while under a new manager though......................
If Martinez could get that team to 5th, I don't see the problem in thinking Koeman could do something similar with what he's got

Unfortunately, this squad bar the additions made in the summer, is 3 years older and bang out of form/sync. Players we've relied on for several years such as Jags and Baines looking a bit jaded and injury prone. Koeman has a huge overhaul on his hands, as long as progress is in an upward direction, he has my backing.

 

[CahillsCornerFlag]

I dunno.

First up, I cannot see us being involved in much activity at the higher end of the market in January.

And as the popular consensus, as expressed by your good self and others, is that we are only climbing two or three league positions at most, I fail to see how we are going to be any more attractive to star players next summer than we were in the one just gone.

IMO Koeman needs to justify his huge salary now and get this current squad playing better than they have been.

After all, twelve short months ago the cry round these parts was that we had the "best squad in thirty years".

I believe this current squad is capable of better and the manager needs to find a way to utilise it to its optimum potential.

If he does that there is no reason we cannot finish in at least the position we now occupy.

Then we become a more attractive proposition to players and at last we might see us flex a bit of muscle in the market.

The "best squad" rhetoric was peddled by the old manager mate, the only thing the fans are guilty of is believing that as they clearly aren't that talented.

There's only so much Koeman can do when Mirallas, Barkley and Deulofeu, our chief three creators pre-Bolasie, have completely failed to fire. He's certainly given Kev and Ross enough chances. He can't be judged until he's had a few transfer windows for me.

 

[Deleted member 24970]

You said he's destructive when played CONSISTENTLY on the left, and then you mention 2 or 3 games he played against us! He's a very streaky player, we all know that, he'll look great in some games, average in the majority. Perhaps Koeman knows this and is trying to get him involved more by moving him round, if it results in a goal, he's doing the right thing, no? Especially when the goal didn't come down the left. Surely giving someone like him, where his pace is his biggest plus, the freedom to move around, gives the opposition more to worry about and adds to our attacking options, instead of him staying out on the left. No?

Yes I used the games against us as a example of what he is capable of, simply because I was there, watching TV can be different sometimes.
I take your point re Koeman getting him involved more, but why doesn't he play him left wing where he favours ? Why do managers have to try being too clever and start moving people about for the sake of it ? See Guardiola as one example, also Mourinho taking Englands up and coming striker in Rashford and playing him(edit: defensive) left wing.

I also accept your point about the benefits of moving around but it only works when you have players who like to pass and move and play with eachother to create opportunities, I think Mirallas, Bolasie and Delboy in particular are guilty of being too selfish and just finding space to do a couple of step overs when shifting the ball quickly is required, dare I say it see Coutinho, Firmino and Lallana for example.

 

[Jeff Jones]

Is that Hyacinth Bucket? Looks like 'er

 

[Jeff Jones]

I know, and I agree with him. Except he's had one window totally wasted thanks to Moshiri et al.

We need a 'dislike' option. FFS, Moshiri can't force....... ah, what's the point?

 

[Gladystweet]

Is that Hyacinth Bucket? Looks like 'er

That was me. Post Burnley

 

[Jeff Jones]

Not true. This place was overly positive, until two things happened: firstly, @davek introduced us to the possibility that Kenright was Kenwrong. He fought on his own for years on that until everyone saw the light. Secondly, Kipper closed and the (naughty word) transferred here.

I resent that. Hrrumph!

 

[Tubey]

We need a 'dislike' option. FFS, Moshiri can't force....... ah, what's the point?

Can't force players to sign? Yeah, I understand that mate. It doesn't invalidate what I said - if we dicked around all summer going after players we had no chance of signing, then the buck stops with Moshiri for not sensibly directing transfer activity by having a competent team to do it in place, and that's the "at best" scenario - at worst, he didn't invest into the club, only spent money when he received it from Stones, and is a fraud. Either way, we wasted a transfer window, and Moshiri is ultimately to blame for that happening.

 

[Jeff Jones]

Can't force players to sign? Yeah, I understand that mate. It doesn't invalidate what I said - if we dicked around all summer going after players we had no chance of signing, then the buck stops with Moshiri for not sensibly directing transfer activity by having a competent team to do it in place, and that's the "at best" scenario - at worst, he didn't invest into the club, only spent money when he received it from Stones, and is a fraud. Either way, we wasted a transfer window, and Moshiri is ultimately to blame for that happening.

I don't agree with much of that. Sorry.

 

[DualityNSNO]

Thing is with Kone, Cleverley, niasse, they mightn't have to be called upon. Koeman knew the shortfalls in the squad when he took over and he decided to shell out on Bolassie when there was probably other areas that should have taken priority.
You say there's holes in the team, but it's basically the same team that got us upto 5th 3 years ago with a much inferior manager. A look at that season will tell you what a new manager can achieve with a fresh outlook. We have a talented team, ok the depth isn't the best but we have a 1st 11 that can give the best teams a game, as has been proven. With a bit of luck on the injury front, why can't we be aiming for top 5 or 6. I just find the defeatist attitude here a bit deflating, especially after all the optimism of pre season or even last month.

Except the most important factor in the new manager thing is that the previous manager for 10 years was Moyes when Martinez took over - a notoriously defence-minded manager, who also left the Spaniard defenders in their prime. Now - Jags is getting old and makes stupid errors every game, we had to get Williams in, Mori is a liability, Holgate is too young, Coleman's not had a good season in 2 years, Baines is injured every week. Hardly a team to build on, that.

And re: the players - if Moshiri didn't give any money, how can Koeman go and buy the players?

 

[davids]

Except the most important factor in the new manager thing is that the previous manager for 10 years was Moyes when Martinez took over - a notoriously defence-minded manager, who also left the Spaniard defenders in their prime. Now - Jags is getting old and makes stupid errors every game, we had to get Williams in, Mori is a liability, Holgate is too young, Coleman's not had a good season in 2 years, Baines is injured every week. Hardly a team to build on, that.

And re: the players - if Moshiri didn't give any money, how can Koeman go and buy the players?

It's reported he gave him the money to sign a Newcastle midfielder who didn't fancy us.

 

[DualityNSNO]

It's reported he gave him the money to sign a Newcastle midfielder who didn't fancy us.

I try to forgot we were ever in for Sissoko to be fair, the utter shitehawk.

Explains nothing about the dicking about during the whole summer though, as that happened in the last hours of the window.

 

[davids]

I try to forgot we were ever in for Sissoko to be fair, the utter shitehawk.

Explains nothing about the dicking about during the whole summer though, as that happened in the last hours of the window.

Well there was that Spanish striker who can't get a start at Arsenal.Just think with all the TV money washing around the window became very complicated.Fingers crossed January finds us better fixed.

 

[Angelgabriel]

Except the most important factor in the new manager thing is that the previous manager for 10 years was Moyes when Martinez took over - a notoriously defence-minded manager, who also left the Spaniard defenders in their prime. Now - Jags is getting old and makes stupid errors every game, we had to get Williams in, Mori is a liability, Holgate is too young, Coleman's not had a good season in 2 years, Baines is injured every week. Hardly a team to build on, that.

And re: the players - if Moshiri didn't give any money, how can Koeman go and buy the players?

Which makes what Martinez done in his 1st season all the more impressive. The players had been playing turgid football for years, he comes in & has them playing like Barcelona.............in his 1st season. Anyone would think having a new manager doesn't make much difference to how we play.
You mention the Defence now, koeman has improved the defence immeasurably. The problem is Midfield and getting service & more support to help Rom (he's supposed to have improved that too, with Guaye & Yannick) and the general consensus is that they're successes. When Koeman took over, I would have expected to see an identity,regardless of personnel. He's made us hard to beat, but where's the high energy, high pressing, he himself was mentioning when we were unbeaten and turning up on Sky's MNF.
Theres a manager not too far from here, who took over a bad team and got them to 2 cup finals playing football no one thought some of them players were capable of. Without buying anyone. Perhaps I'm being ultra critical, but I just would have expected more from us/him.