Let's not kid ourselves

Status
Not open for further replies.

Tel001 said:
What does being positive on an Internet forum actually help with? Nothing! If people feel negative then let them be... I can't believe how bad we are... Barkley isn't good enough... Gerry looks like he's trying but again .. isn't good enough.... jags has had two nightmares in a row... lukaku will leave next year.... our bench is disgustingly bad and we have not won in 4 matches.. losing to Norwich, Bournemouth and burnley ... people have good cause to feel negative at the moment imo
Click to expand...
If you wanna be negative be my guest, feel free, no one's stopping you.
 
Too many average players, a few great players who perform inconsistently, and a collective mindset that often end's up in a result like we saw at Burnley yesterday.

Koeman will need time to eradicate the mess that Roberto left us in.
 
Whistlin' Dixie said:
They're a bunch of blaggards. Flattering to deceive once more. I'd say they're no better than us individually, they just have a collective arrogance about them that we don't - for some reason. Mourinho had it right about them last week.

That said, it's a poor reflection on us if we allow teams to undo us with the few chances they get, and take all day trying to suss out a way through them. My feeling is our players believe the things written about them as individuals but don't do anywhere's near enough to get the MSM as excited about them as they do about the likes of other teams when they have a good spell.

We need a siege mentality installed in most of our side. A 'Dogs of War' approach, but (Unless absolutely necessary) without the playing system that went with it. The Joe Royle type 'Bollox to the lot of ya' attitude after we did for spurs in 95 and ruined the 'dream final'.
Click to expand...
Mate you can go on and on about what we need but it's been getting said for too long which ever way you put it and it pains to say they have a better team,and recent results against them whether it was Moyes or Martinez we don't turn up against them we see a red shirt and go to pieces.
 
Groucho said:
If you wanna be negative be my guest, feel free, no one's stopping you.
Click to expand...
It's a lazy comment to make that any comment not made with the aid of rose-tinted spectacles is a negative comment. I thought this forum was here to provide a platform for discussion of all things Everton rather than a North Korean style orthodoxy.
 

Whistlin' Dixie said:
They're a bunch of blaggards. Flattering to deceive once more. I'd say they're no better than us individually, they just have a collective arrogance about them that we don't - for some reason. Mourinho had it right about them last week.

That said, it's a poor reflection on us if we allow teams to undo us with the few chances they get, and take all day trying to suss out a way through them. My feeling is our players believe the things written about them as individuals but don't do anywhere's near enough to get the MSM as excited about them as they do about the likes of other teams when they have a good spell.

We need a siege mentality installed in most of our side. A 'Dogs of War' approach, but (Unless absolutely necessary) without the playing system that went with it. The Joe Royle type 'Bollox to the lot of ya' attitude after we did for spurs in 95 and ruined the 'dream final'.
Click to expand...

Excellent post. I agree about the RS, individually they don't have a lot that strikes fear into opponents, but collectively they become much more, their expectation levels actually help rather than hinder them.

That is almost impossible for us to replicate. Koeman will have to focus on each position and bring in individuals who can then hopefully mould into an effective unit. That work will take up most of the length of his contract.

The other thing is the narrative which runs through EFC which not only tolerates but almost embraces mediocrity. We are like a working class lad whose own family sniggers at the idea he might want to better himself, let alone be confident in projecting higher expectations externally. I see Kenwright and Elstone as standard bearers of that attitude and it remains in place under Moshiri. Now he can't be tasked alone with changing that but change is needed. Not superfluous, nonsensical soundbytes from Kenwright.

Ideally what I want to see happen is that we get to spend a decent amount of cash and that we overhaul the board to bring in people who have expectations to match ours, based on investment in the team. They have to do these things, and be seen to be doing them, to smash that culture of mediocrity bit by bit.
 
I think the next 2 matches will tell us a lot about the current team and whether or not the manager can do anything with them this season. We've had a stumble in the last month and we have West Ham at home and Chelsea away coming up. I don't fear either side and we should be capable of getting 4 points from 6 at the minimum. The likelihood of us doing that seems small though given how much we've stuttered in the past month.

In the past 2 seasons, the moment we started to drop points in games we should have won was where it all fell apart and we never recovered. My worry is that may be about to happen again. It's not just ourselves that have had some poor results recently though, but the concern is that we won't go and put that right whereas other sides like Spurs will.

If we don't beat West Ham then I can't see us doing anything better than a mid table finish.
 
Stan Lee Park said:
It's a lazy comment to make that any comment not made with the aid of rose-tinted spectacles is a negative comment.
Click to expand...

There's negative comments and then there's this nonsense


Tel001 said:
What does being positive on an Internet forum actually help with? Nothing! If people feel negative then let them be... I can't believe how bad we are... Barkley isn't good enough... Gerry looks like he's trying but again .. isn't good enough.... jags has had two nightmares in a row... lukaku will leave next year.... our bench is disgustingly bad and we have not won in 4 matches.. losing to Norwich, Bournemouth and burnley ... people have good cause to feel negative at the moment imo
Click to expand...
 

brieverton said:
Excellent post. I agree about the RS, individually they don't have a lot that strikes fear into opponents, but collectively they become much more, their expectation levels actually help rather than hinder them.

The other thing is the narrative which runs through EFC which not only tolerates but almost embraces mediocrity. We are like a working class lad whose own family sniggers at the idea he might want to better himself, let alone be confident in projecting higher expectations externally. I see Kenwright and Elstone as standard bearers of that attitude and it remains in place under Moshiri. Now he can't be tasked alone with changing that but change is needed. Not superfluous, nonsensical soundbytes from Kenwright.
Click to expand...

Firstly on the RS, I think we're all a little bit deluded about the quality of their team, they are clearly a lot better than we give them credit for. We can't just make out like belief alone wins them games. It helps, but they obviously have players who can do what is needed when the time comes, and we don't.

Take that Swansea game the other week. They went behind early on and were at 1-1 going in to the final 10 minutes. They dug in and won. They went to the Emirates and Stamford Bridge and put 6 past those 2 winning both games. An achievement that we haven't manged for 20 years at Arsenal and 22 at Stamford Bridge.

On your next point about Kenwright etc, I disagree as well. Kenwright doesn't have the money to push us on to where we need to be, but this idea that he doesn't want success for Everton or to compete with the best is unfair. Mediocrity doesn't "remain in place" under Moshiri either. He has come in, spent millions in bringing Koeman and Walsh to the club, and is seriously looking for us to move Stadium for the good of the club. Just because he hasn't revealed a Waterfront Stadium set to be built in 2017 does't mean he isn't trying to sort the stadium issue out behind the scenes.

Some people are seriously deluded if they thought Moshiri coming in was going to instantly have us in the top 4, with World Class players all desperate to join a side that finished 11th the past 2 seasons, hasn't competed in the Champions League a single time in the Premier League era and hasn't won a trophy for 21 years.
 

Status
Not open for further replies.

Welcome

Join Grand Old Team to get involved in the Everton discussion. Signing up is quick, easy, and completely free.

Register

Shop

Back
Top