The fact that everyone wants out. What does that tell you?
The EU deal
- Thread starter davek
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Jacko93
Player Valuation: £40m
That we are all affected differently as part of the trading bloc?
That's exactly what Chamberlain said about Czechoslovakia. Even if there is no direct impact, the UK has a long and proud history of upholding the ideals and liberal values of freedom and democracy. Much blood has been spilt to protect and promote such values. It would be a dark day in our history of we shrugged our shoulders and said that's none of our business.
Or maybe it's not just a trading bloc.
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
What is it with these bullying Germans, has history taught them nothing about the British......
"Elmar Brok, German member of the European Parliament Committee, said it will simply be “divorce proceedings” and warned that the migrant crisis will only get worse for the UK if we quit the 28-nation bloc.
He said there will be no “re-negotiations about a new deal.
“We don't want to have a precedence for other countries, that shows it is worth-while to be against it in the first instance, only to get more out of it later.”
Elmar Brok, German member of the European Parliament Committee, said it will simply be “divorce proceedings” and warned that the migrant crisis will only get worse for the UK if we quit the 28-nation bloc.
He said there will be no “re-negotiations about a new deal.
“We don't want to have a precedence for other countries, that shows it is worth-while to be against it in the first instance, only to get more out of it later.”
It is the latest bout of scaremongering to come from the European powerhouse after Angela Merkel waded into the debate headfirst by warning Britain it “won’t get a good deal” if it backs Brexit.
We don't want to have a precedence for other countries, that shows it is worth-while to be against it in the first instance, only to get more out of it later
Elmar Brok, German member of the European Parliament Committee
Mr Brok’s comments also engulf David Cameon’s ‘Panic Fear’ camp, as he warned French border controls would be diminished in the event of a British exodus from Brussels.
He fumed that the current British debate about the dangers of migration is “a made up discussion, that conveys false and unfounded security.”
He added: “The British have to realise that the protection they get from us, for example by the French in Calais, would then disappear.”
Mr Brok also warned that if the UK want to profit from the domestic market, the freedom of movement of employees would have to be guaranteed.
He said: “They will not be the exception,” pointing towards Switzerland and Norway, who also have to grant free movement, even though they are not EU members Germans are desperately pleading with Britain to remain in the EU as a poll revealed 80 per cent of them want us to stay.
An overwhelming four out of five people living in Germany do not want us to back Brexit.
Reinforcing this panicked plea, Mr Brok added: “It is in the interest of both sides, but even more in the British interest, that we stay together.
“The willingness on our side exists. We should look at facts and not listen to emotions brought on by our past.”
But the EU parliament member said he would respect a British decision to leave the EU.
It comes after it today emerged that the escalating migrant crisis and rise of the far-right in Europe is threatening to pull Mrs Merkel’s government apart in what has been dubbed the party’s “worst internal crisis in 40 years”.
"Elmar Brok, German member of the European Parliament Committee, said it will simply be “divorce proceedings” and warned that the migrant crisis will only get worse for the UK if we quit the 28-nation bloc.
He said there will be no “re-negotiations about a new deal.
“We don't want to have a precedence for other countries, that shows it is worth-while to be against it in the first instance, only to get more out of it later.”
Elmar Brok, German member of the European Parliament Committee, said it will simply be “divorce proceedings” and warned that the migrant crisis will only get worse for the UK if we quit the 28-nation bloc.
He said there will be no “re-negotiations about a new deal.
“We don't want to have a precedence for other countries, that shows it is worth-while to be against it in the first instance, only to get more out of it later.”
It is the latest bout of scaremongering to come from the European powerhouse after Angela Merkel waded into the debate headfirst by warning Britain it “won’t get a good deal” if it backs Brexit.
We don't want to have a precedence for other countries, that shows it is worth-while to be against it in the first instance, only to get more out of it later
Elmar Brok, German member of the European Parliament Committee
Mr Brok’s comments also engulf David Cameon’s ‘Panic Fear’ camp, as he warned French border controls would be diminished in the event of a British exodus from Brussels.
He fumed that the current British debate about the dangers of migration is “a made up discussion, that conveys false and unfounded security.”
He added: “The British have to realise that the protection they get from us, for example by the French in Calais, would then disappear.”
Mr Brok also warned that if the UK want to profit from the domestic market, the freedom of movement of employees would have to be guaranteed.
He said: “They will not be the exception,” pointing towards Switzerland and Norway, who also have to grant free movement, even though they are not EU members Germans are desperately pleading with Britain to remain in the EU as a poll revealed 80 per cent of them want us to stay.
An overwhelming four out of five people living in Germany do not want us to back Brexit.
Reinforcing this panicked plea, Mr Brok added: “It is in the interest of both sides, but even more in the British interest, that we stay together.
“The willingness on our side exists. We should look at facts and not listen to emotions brought on by our past.”
But the EU parliament member said he would respect a British decision to leave the EU.
It comes after it today emerged that the escalating migrant crisis and rise of the far-right in Europe is threatening to pull Mrs Merkel’s government apart in what has been dubbed the party’s “worst internal crisis in 40 years”.
I think you could be surprised. Especially with above incidents and sectarian undertones again using Ireland as an Example. All you need is a coupple of Fanta scruffs or Celtic fans tearing up the centre of Amsterdam, you have to remember the liberties you are potentially giving away.
daylightrobber
Player Valuation: £15m
The French want us out more than any other EU country, but it is still not a majority. They want us out because they see the opportunity to fill a possible trade gap. They would happily take our share of joint ventures in aeronauticals/aerospace. They would also love to see tariffs on our cars.
We are voting to preserve liberal ideas of freedom and democracy.
Unless your idea of freedom and democracy is an undemocratic superstate that is now actively censoring it's own citizens by labeling anything it disagrees with as hate speech and bullying it's smaller nations and governments.
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
That's right Bruce. Britain has expended much blood and treasure upholding those ideals and helping others......and got sod all by way of thanks back. Even now, when we want to run our own country again, the continent that we helped to save are trying to bully us into remaining.....
daylightrobber
Player Valuation: £15m
By closing our borders and restricting the free movement of our own peoples.
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
If it were only a trading block, like I voted to join.......
magicjuan
Player Valuation: £60m
I think if you read more than just a snippet of Elaine Pagels work you will find a greater deal. I have. I have studied the origins of Christianity for many, many years and haven't been selective on authors.
Catholicism still recognises the book of Revelations, it was selected and adopted, but excluded the gospel of Jesus, of Mary and Thomas. All existing documents found at Nag Hammadi. The bible isn't the word of God. The bible is an adopted series of stories from other religions prior to Judaism. The subsequent 'new testament' is a political theosophy similar to Islam and is capitalist and exclusionist equally.
As for gnosticism, well, if you delve into it you will find that is as different to Christianity as it could be, save for the Cathars and Bogomils and theirs was an amalgamated faith drawing from the heretical orthodoxies of Turkey that included a different form of 'christianity' that doesn't recognise any of the catholic traits.
You are making no sense either. I am pointing out that the adopted beliefs of existing Christianity and its origins have absolutely no relevance to Islam shaping any destiny in Europe and the fearmongering of immigration adopted by the Brexit campaign as its lead justification is, shall we say, un-christian?
Jacko93
Player Valuation: £40m
I don't believe that it is. I'm really torn on the whole issue tbh. The problem is that none of us are able to see into the future, we can use all the information given to us (not much in this case) and use that to form an argument, I just don't think that I've got the right stuff to build an argument with yet.
There are good points either side I just wish they would focus on them rather than the rubbish they're coming out with.
I am absolutely norrarsed about people coming into the country, regardless of where their from, it all adds up the rich tapestry of what makes us, us, adding to our Norse or Viking, or Saxon backgrounds. I don't care about peoples beliefs, as I don't really have one in a religious sense, so I have no bias.
What I don't want though is for our elected governments to become effectively powerless to implement their manifestos, and I want them to stop using EU governance as an excuse leading to "Well we would've but for" politics. But on the other hand, we need somebody to control the Tories or there'll be no country left for anybody to do trade with.
SNova
Player Valuation: £15m
Brilliant isn't it.
peteblue
Welcome back Wayne
There won't be an issue for the law abiding.......
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