Gladystweet
Player Valuation: £50m
Is it time to open this poll again? If I may be so bold, I'd like to change my vote.
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Which way do you wish to change it?
Gladystweet
Player Valuation: £50m
Not tellin ya...then you'll know...
AndyC
Player Valuation: £70m
I'll raise you an 8-track
I think that Moshiri will bring somebody else in to Everton , it does seem that he likes to work with other investors.
Could it be that Usmanov's shares could be sold to Kroenke ?. I think he might be very glad to have that thorn out of his side.
I am assuming there are no Premiership rules against that and it would free up Usmanov to invest elsewhere.
It would be so very interesting if it happened, even if only to upset our neighbours.
I have spoken to a couple of friends who support Liverpool and it certainly has not occurred to them that maybe major changes in football are on the way.
They didn't think we could get either Koeman or Emery. They thought maybe Pellegrini. They still think it is middle of the road Everton, mid table and know your place.
Could it be that Usmanov's shares could be sold to Kroenke ?. I think he might be very glad to have that thorn out of his side.
I am assuming there are no Premiership rules against that and it would free up Usmanov to invest elsewhere.
It would be so very interesting if it happened, even if only to upset our neighbours.
I have spoken to a couple of friends who support Liverpool and it certainly has not occurred to them that maybe major changes in football are on the way.
They didn't think we could get either Koeman or Emery. They thought maybe Pellegrini. They still think it is middle of the road Everton, mid table and know your place.
TheFinnFan
Finners
hmm...i dont know jack about these things but this just doesnt add up.
Milk
Udderly delicious
I'll raise you an 8-track
I'll raise you a 75 rpm
The Esk
Player Valuation: £70m
It's an interesting question, although it has to be remembered that Usmanov bought Moshiri out of R&W Holdings. R&W Holdings position remained unchanged vis-a-vis Arsenal.
I think there can only be two, possibly three motivations (i) it helped a very good friend out, allowing him to pursue an ambition to part own/own a football club, (ii) it allowed two very close businessmen to increase their exposure to the Premier League having been unable to do so since 2011 in any meaningful way - their combined exposure increases from £400 million to £600-800 million depending upon how much Moshiri puts into the club over the next couple of years or (iii) genuinely Usmanov is committed to Arsenal as he stated very publicly, and was happy to continue building a stake which he enjoys and one that he wishes future generations to enjoy. (I'd say (ii) and (iii) are more likely)
It's been suggested that his view has changed and he's getting frustrated (again) especially as he sees the influence Moshiri is now having, but I don't buy that particularly - that's not typically how such men react - patience is often a key quality, especially given his background where playing the long game really works.
All interesting stuff.
ToffeeDoug
Player Valuation: £35m
The fact that everyone is perplexed by this and having to hazard guesses suggests that Usmanov is making an unusual business decision in helping out Moshiri by buying out his share (9% was it?) in R&W Holdings. Do businessmen at this level do unusual and sentimental? Surely such decisions would have to be logical, calculated and with an underlying business rationale?
They are business partners.
ToffeeDoug
Player Valuation: £35m
Business yes, so what is the business upside for Usmanov? Just a simple case of increasing his ownership of Arsenal shares, or rather now gaining complete control of R&W Holdings, an asset of considerable value to him that is unlikely to diminish.
Well if you delve deeper almost all the money Moshiri "owns" is tied up into his holding company, which he owns 10% of, Usmanov and some fella call Skoch own the rest.
The business upside is both the reasons you stated, he gains more shares in a company whos share price is only likely to increase.
AmericanBlue
Player Valuation: £8m
Obviously the Esk is a gentleman and a scholar and far more versed in these matters than I and honestly I do not believe Usmanov is on the cards for us in the first place. BUT, my question to the panel, bearing in mind what The Esk has said is this: how does a billionaire and one of if not the richest man in Russia allow himself to be in a situation where essentially, his hands are tied despite his big investment in Arsenal. For me, a billionaire of his cunning and experience would not allow this. I cannot see him being stuck. It does not add up. There is always a way to sort things out at that level.
My second question is, if the notion is that Kroenke is scared of buying out Usmanov or someone else for his shares as it will create a massive new competitor, well surely this is happening with the amount of big investors going in for a slice of the premiership anyway? The Esk has repeatedly offered this as a reason as to why Kroenke embraces the stalemate. When does that become no longer interesting to Kroenke bearing in mind the amount of money being pumped in? It's only a matter of time (and very short time) before we have a new Abramovic, then another, and another etc.. So why would he carry on essentiall blocking Usmanov (who due to paragraph one has a plan) and when will he give in, cause he will. Why? Because Usmanov has plans, he is not the richest guy in Russia by trouvaille, he has worked hard for it and being dictated is not something he enjoys or would allow to carry on.
My second question is, if the notion is that Kroenke is scared of buying out Usmanov or someone else for his shares as it will create a massive new competitor, well surely this is happening with the amount of big investors going in for a slice of the premiership anyway? The Esk has repeatedly offered this as a reason as to why Kroenke embraces the stalemate. When does that become no longer interesting to Kroenke bearing in mind the amount of money being pumped in? It's only a matter of time (and very short time) before we have a new Abramovic, then another, and another etc.. So why would he carry on essentiall blocking Usmanov (who due to paragraph one has a plan) and when will he give in, cause he will. Why? Because Usmanov has plans, he is not the richest guy in Russia by trouvaille, he has worked hard for it and being dictated is not something he enjoys or would allow to carry on.
The Esk
Player Valuation: £70m
The story goes back to 2007 - it's fairly lengthy but I'll give the shortest version I can
David Dein introduced Stan Kroenke in early 2007 believing that his money could help Arsenal be more competitive in the PL. Kroenke bought Granada's shares and a few from Danny Fiszman to take his holding to around 12 %. The Arsenal board were not happy with Dein and he was removed from the board in April 2007.
At about the same time Usmanov started becoming interested in acquiring Arsenal shares, forming R&W Holdings with Moshiri. Dein sold all his shares (14.6%) to R&W and became their Chairman. R&W started actively buying shares in the market, acquiring 21% by May 2008. Dein then resigned from R&W thinking it would improve Usmanov's relationship with the then Arsenal board.
The Arsenal board feared an attempted takeover by Usmanov and agreed to a "lockdown" meaning they would not sell their shares to anyone other than "permitted persons" through to April 2009. There was a further agreement giving the board first option on any director sales up to October 2012.
The board invited Kroenke to join them in September prior to the lockdown period, to ensure Dein could never return. However in December 2008, a director called Lady Nina Bracewell-Smith who owned 15.9% left the board meaning her shares were no longer subject to the lockdown - critically she never showed any interest in selling to Usmanov.
Over the next two years Kroenke acquired another 3 blocks of shares taking his holding to 28.58 % in 2010, just below the critical 30% threshold. Eventually in April 2011 he had acquired 29.99%. By this time R&W had got their holdings up to 27% through acquiring non board holdings (not Bracewell-Smith's though).
On April 11th 2011 Kroenke in a takeover bid acquired the board's and Bracewell-Smith's shares taking him to 62%, R&W immediately refused to sell. Since this date both Kroenke and R&W have increased their holdings when shares have become available to today's figure of 68% and 30% respectively.
So Usmanov ends up with this minority position and total deadlock because the Arsenal board chose to sell their shares to Kroenke not Usmanov. They did so under the advice of Rothschild Bank and Danny Fiszman. Fiszman was seriously ill at the time, and in fact died 2 days after the takeover bid by Kroenke.
So there's the answer as to why Usmanov finds himself a 30% shareholder with no influence - the board sold out to Kroenke and he calls the shots.
Hope that helps.
orly
Please check with me for Blammo criteria
Esk bit of a question here which is pure speculation, no grounding in much.
Does it surprise you that a man as capable and, reportedly, ruthless in a way many in the post- Iron Curtain era have been, was so easily out maneuvered in this fashion at Arsenal?
And this Skoch chap or whoever, the third chap in R&W - is he likely to be involved with Everton?
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