The EU deal

SNova · June 3, 2016

atrottel said:
Although I am not instinctively in favour of massive governments and 'European states', I think pragmatically there is definitely a necessity for entities to stand up to global corporations (such as Google).

Yes, I'm not against cooperation and working with our friends and allies. I encourage it. But at the same time one world government would terrify me. I think the attempts to combine historical nation states together into a superstate without the consent of the people always ends in disaster.

edge · June 3, 2016

atrottel said:
But surely that implies free access to markets and therefore free movement of citizens? (He said, as a Brit doing business in an EU country.)

wouldn't have a problem with free movement if the country's involved in it had to reach certain conditions,before they got access,certain standard of living standard,wages ect before getting entry into the free movement zone, we could help them get towards that standard before they entered not a problem in my eyes.
As its presently used as a pool of cheap labour , driving down wages in the UK i am not in favour of the current form

Tubey · June 3, 2016

SNova said:
Yes, I'm not against cooperation and working with our friends and allies. I encourage it. But at the same time one world government would terrify me. I think the attempts to combine historical nation states together into a superstate without the consent of the people always ends in disaster.

That isn't happening, and is a ridiculous, over the top, scaremongering statement.

SNova · June 3, 2016

Tubey said:
That isn't happening, and is a ridiculous, over the top, scaremongering statement.

It has a flag, an anthem, a currency, no Borders, has ambitions for an army and supercedes national elected governments. But don't worry it's still just about trade.

Tubey · June 3, 2016

Gove outright lying about the amounts we send and receive from the EU. Complete fantasy figures.

Tubey · June 3, 2016

SNova said:
It has a flag, an anthem, a currency, no Borders, has ambitions for an army and supercedes national elected governments. But don't worry it's still just about trade.

It's not trying to be a superstate though. It isn't making any attempt to be one, especially without democratic mandate, thus your statement was stupid and wrong. Sorry, but it was.

SNova · June 3, 2016

Tubey said:
Gove outright lying about the amounts we send and receive from the EU. Complete fantasy figures.

It's £33m a day isn't it? What amount has Gove said? I'm not watching it.

SNova · June 3, 2016

Tubey said:
It's not trying to be a superstate though. It isn't making any attempt to be one, especially without democratic mandate, thus your statement was stupid and wrong. Sorry, but it was.

Okay, if you can't see the direction of ever closer union that's your view.

Tubey · June 3, 2016

SNova said:
Okay, if you can't see the direction of ever closer union that's your view.

Ever closer union isn't the same as a "superstate" is it, with one central government dictating all affairs.

As far as I'm aware, all member states of the European Union have elected governments. I haven't seen anything to suggest the EU has any desire whatsoever to have it any other way.

So again, your statement was over the top and ridiculous.

Tubey · June 3, 2016

Gove just tore apart then by a guy in the audience.

Basically said he's asking people to vote for a divorce and sort out the finances after instead of before, because Leave have no economic plan whatsoever. That's an absolute fact, and it's insanity.

It's political arrogance from a bunch of largely Tory whoppers appealing to the lowest common denominator on immigration to further their own careers.

SNova · June 3, 2016

Tubey said:
Ever closer union isn't the same as a "superstate" is it, with one central government dictating all affairs.

As far as I'm aware, all member states of the European Union have elected governments. I haven't seen anything to suggest the EU has any desire whatsoever to have it any other way.

So again, your statement was over the top and ridiculous.

It's my opinion. You have yours, so we will have to agree to disagree.

Tubey · June 3, 2016

SNova said:
It's my opinion. You have yours, so we will have to agree to disagree.

No, 'opinion' has to be based on some sort of possible fact. Your 'opinion' has absolutely no grounding in reality. There is no prospect whatsoever of a European superstate, so when you typed that sentence, you were being over-dramatic to try and make a point, and it backfired.

daylightrobber · June 3, 2016

SNova said:
It's my opinion. You have yours, so we will have to agree to disagree.

One opinion is based on fact, the other on fear. Just like the vast majority of the In vs Out debate.

SNova · June 3, 2016

Tubey said:
No, 'opinion' has to be based on some sort of possible fact. Your 'opinion' has absolutely no grounding in reality. There is no prospect whatsoever of a European superstate, so when you typed that sentence, you were being over-dramatic to try and make a point, and it backfired.

No, I unequivocally believe this to be the plan. Whenever I watch the EU parliament they call for more integration, not less.

daylightrobber said:
One opinion is based on fact, the other on fear. Just like the vast majority of the In vs Out debate.

I just highlighted facts that suggest the creation of a state.

daylightrobber · June 3, 2016

SNova said:
No, I unequivocally believe this to be the plan. Whenever I watch the EU parliament they call for more integration, not less.

I bet you look forward to the episode when they do away with all the democratically elected heads of government, so they can start on the path to world domination.