Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[AndyC]

I park in the Gwladys St school yard,he sometimes parks there,I swear to God I am seriously thinking of having a word with him,what a complete and utter snivelling little Shoite he is.

You have my permission

 

[kithnou]

@kithnou said...


I agree, if the long-term vision of Mr.Moshiri were fully outlined, there is a genuine opportunity for whoever the new manager might be to forge and mould a dynasty at Everton including (hopefully) taking the team into a new stadium in 3-4 years time.

That kithnou bloke talks sense...

 

[mythbuster]

YOu mean like flogging your best young striker and best young midfielder not to mention the player of the year 2 seasons running?

Wait he did that already!

He tried to buy Stones as a long term replacement for Terry, same as Zouma is a long term replacement for cahill. So not beyond the realms of impossibility that he sells a player he can easily replace to fund short term success, you know, like he has done whenever he has had the chance to

Soz, you're right mate. If we get Jose, then the first thing he is doing is DEFO selling John Stones.

 

[bluestevon]

I don't mean sell to buy mate. I'd imagine there was enough moneyh to attract him in the first place.

What i mean is him taking over then seeing Ross and Rom as part of his team, but seeing someone like stones as dispensable, selling him to raise a further 40 million lets say, to sign a couple of other players in his place. It's a trait of his, hence why rom bruyne and Mata all left chelsea, he used it to buy other players.
He doesn't manage long term success at any club, not even porto. So it isn't too far out the question to think he could sell someone who can raise a lot of money, replace him with a solid centre half to fill in the gap, and then use the money to fund elsewhere ala the willian and matic signings when he sold mata and de bruyne in that january.

That would be my main concern about him, especially as he would jump ship immediately if someone else offered him a top job, be silly to think otherwise.

Not really though mate, Chelseas policy on bringing in very talented young players, letting them get experience and exposure on loan at higher leagues than they had been bought from and then sold on - was a reaction to FFP at the time and their way of maintaining a title winning squad whilst easily complying. IF they had known what would happen with FFP and it would fall flat - they may have gone about things in a less surgical manner.

He sold De Bruyne because he had Hazzard who was last seasons POY and if sold last summer probably would have broken the transfer record.
He Sold Lukaku because he had Costa - who was magnificient last season and gave Cheslea exactly the kind of snide that title winning teams need.

Both De Bruyne and Lukaku massively developed from their seasons loans and then both really kicked on when they left permanently, but right now both are far better than the two young players who wanted guarantees of first team football at Chelsea and who both engineered moves away to get that playing time

Oh and maybe Mourinho doesn't like Belgiums that much either as they are gobby little sods whenever they go on international duty and this season one fo them decided to down tools like a 12yo (Hazzard)

If Mourinho did ever come to Everton mate and yeah maybe it would be for his typical 3 years, but who honestly cares if we ended up winning half of what he has done at each club in that time frame, maybe 3 years of being able to attract a top level player and maybe 3 years of not every single week having to read about any decent player we have moving to another club would be a ncie respite too

 

[jceverton]

then that removes an obstacle in him coming here then lol

I have many curious thoughts on mourhinio for a different thread, so i will bite my toungue with them.

The way that Chelsea imploded this season, the way he treated the club Doctor, the fact that he had no idea of how to turn it around, the way he lost the players, all of that would be a concern to me.

 

[AndyC]

That kithnou bloke talks sense...

You know him then ?

 

[kithnou]

You know him then ?

Yes. I'd slip him one

 

[AndyC]

Yes. I'd slip him one

Gosh !!

 

[bluestevon]

See i can understand that trade off, selling mata and de bruyne got him fabregas and matic, who by all standards are top class ready made players. If that is the direction the club go in then fine, i can accept that if it did give us a huge volt up the league.

I still think he would not be here long term, and if united or PSG or someone offered him a CL job before he could achieve it here then he would be on the first plane over there.

Don't think he has ever broken a contract at any club he has been at mate, so IF and obviously its a massive IF, he did come he'd see out the 3 years and of that i am pretty certain

As for selling and buying mate, all managerts do that, but Mata wasn't a young kid - pretty much the same age as Fabregas 27/28, and he preferred other players he had over De Bruyne - noticably Hazard (who up till this season you could udnerstand why)

All managers have those mistakes - players they let get away etc, a lot of the time it's just a matter of the manager thinking the players isn't as ready for the first team as the player thinks, both Lukaku and De Bruyne wanted to be starting and pushed moves when they realsied they'd just be squad players - same thing happened to Pogba and a fair few others at United who Ferguson thought needed another year or two of development first and ended up losing them

 

[bluewally]

Don't think he has ever broken a contract at any club he has been at mate, so IF and obviously its a massive IF, he did come he'd see out the 3 years and of that i am pretty certain

As for selling and buying mate, all managerts do that, but Mata wasn't a young kid - pretty much the same age as Fabregas 27/28, and he preferred other players he had over De Bruyne - noticably Hazard (who up till this season you could udnerstand why)

All managers have those mistakes - players they let get away etc, a lot of the time it's just a matter of the manager thinking the players isn't as ready for the first team as the player thinks, both Lukaku and De Bruyne wanted to be starting and pushed moves when they realsied they'd just be squad players - same thing happened to Pogba and a fair few others at United who Ferguson thought needed another year or two of development first and ended up losing them

Especially with young players there's no guarantee they will develop or they may look like they are not going to develop and it doesnt happen until they move.

Sadly we have a couple in our recent history in Dier and Mustafi

 

[Ashtonian]

Soz, you're right mate. If we get Jose, then the first thing he is doing is DEFO selling John Stones.

never said he is definitely selling stones, saying it is an option to him to sign ready made players which in the short term would bring bigger success compared to coaching a 21 year old there instead.

Not really though mate, Chelseas policy on bringing in very talented young players, letting them get experience and exposure on loan at higher leagues than they had been bought from and then sold on - was a reaction to FFP at the time and their way of maintaining a title winning squad whilst easily complying. IF they had known what would happen with FFP and it would fall flat - they may have gone about things in a less surgical manner.

He sold De Bruyne because he had Hazzard who was last seasons POY and if sold last summer probably would have broken the transfer record.
He Sold Lukaku because he had Costa - who was magnificient last season and gave Cheslea exactly the kind of snide that title winning teams need.

Both De Bruyne and Lukaku massively developed from their seasons loans and then both really kicked on when they left permanently, but right now both are far better than the two young players who wanted guarantees of first team football at Chelsea and who both engineered moves away to get that playing time

Oh and maybe Mourinho doesn't like Belgiums that much either as they are gobby little sods whenever they go on international duty and this season one fo them decided to down tools like a 12yo (Hazzard)

If Mourinho did ever come to Everton mate and yeah maybe it would be for his typical 3 years, but who honestly cares if we ended up winning half of what he has done at each club in that time frame, maybe 3 years of being able to attract a top level player and maybe 3 years of not every single week having to read about any decent player we have moving to another club would be a ncie respite too

but he also planned to be at chelsea for a long time the second time around and to be fair if the team hadn't stopped playing for him, he would still be there. So selling his best young talents off was never a 'because i had this player' move, it was just to move money elsewhere to sign other players, as you say for FFP. The players in question were the best of a mixed bunch of youngsters, but if you sign enough young players then one or two will be better than others. I mean luakaku alone cost the club double figures when he arrived, so there was definitely a plan to actually use him before Jose came along. The reason why he sold him, i believe was to raise money to sign other players he wanted, and with costa there, he could sell him on, with the FFP rules resetting allowing him to buy him back when he became the finished article. Probably the same with Wolfsburg, sell him on for a modest fee, sign him again when he is ready to slip straight into the team, ergo, continue success in the short term. It is like looking at our team now, sell stones for example and sign willian and matic. Would our team improve? Yes it would, quite a bit to be honest, but over the long term we lose a player that would be worth more than we sold them for meaning that quality would be what we are chasing then.

I would personally take him because he is a massive step up from previous managers so i'm not going to be anti roberto and then turn my nose up at a winner, course i'd be happy seeing him manage us, and the impact on some of our players would be massive tbh, playing for a manager who has done it all rather than relegated teams.

The way that Chelsea imploded this season, the way he treated the club Doctor, the fact that he had no idea of how to turn it around, the way he lost the players, all of that would be a concern to me.

Chelsea is an enigma though, they can manage themselves when they need to, or at least could before the phasing of the guard. the same players who managed themselves under grant, under Di matteo, both after stopping playing for their then managers. the players can afford to do it because after him they got hiddink, they are getting conte, that woudn't work with us as we don't have a queue of top managers waiting to take over.

A lot of perspective is on mourhinio at top clubs where the players expect to be winning everything, a positive is that put him at a club where the team are not at that same mentality and you get hopefully a team who can run through brick walls because the man telling them to has done it already several times over.

 

[bluestevon]

Especially with young players there's no guarantee they will develop or they may look like they are not going to develop and it doesnt happen until they move.

Sadly we have a couple in our recent history in Dier and Mustafi

All clubs have those players they made a mistake with mate, funny thing is no one points out the host of players they moved on who went on to do the square root of nothing in their careers afterwards, the bigger the club then usually the more turnover of younger players leaving they wil have and the more chance they end up losing someone they come to regret

 

[Ashtonian]

Don't think he has ever broken a contract at any club he has been at mate, so IF and obviously its a massive IF, he did come he'd see out the 3 years and of that i am pretty certain

As for selling and buying mate, all managerts do that, but Mata wasn't a young kid - pretty much the same age as Fabregas 27/28, and he preferred other players he had over De Bruyne - noticably Hazard (who up till this season you could udnerstand why)

All managers have those mistakes - players they let get away etc, a lot of the time it's just a matter of the manager thinking the players isn't as ready for the first team as the player thinks, both Lukaku and De Bruyne wanted to be starting and pushed moves when they realsied they'd just be squad players - same thing happened to Pogba and a fair few others at United who Ferguson thought needed another year or two of development first and ended up losing them

I personally think Mourinhio goes for instant success over developing a team. The age old question, how many young players did he actually put into his team and how many did he just buy? considering he has what, 5-6 years at chelsea, the closest he got was re signing his old players (matic) rather than developing them. Mikel perhaps? think he had no choice with him, considering the mess they went through to get him at the club..

I think the discussion is steering way off topic into an anti mourhinio tone form me and i really don't mean anything i say in that regard. He is a top manager and would still be happy with him here, even if he bought that success to us

 

[jonesey10]

If Arsenal fans get their way then Wenger will be looking for a club in the summer.
I'd snap him up.

 

[mythbuster]

never said he is definitely selling stones, saying it is an option to him to sign ready made players which in the short term would bring bigger success compared to coaching a 21 year old there instead.

Oh right, so what you're saying is..... He valued Stones highly enough to try and break Chelsea's transfer record for him, but if he comes to Everton, he won't be arsed trying to develop him?

Actually, neither of us knows mate. You're basically talking out of your backside, but feel free to carry on.