Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[Groucho]

Apologies...I was only trying to get the point he was trying to make

Ok. But can we not bicker in threads in future?

Thanks.

 

[mythbuster]

Apologies...I was only trying to get the point he was trying to make

The point I was trying to make mate, was that the players have not thrown the last few games. Hence why we've not been beaten.

Sure, not great results, but I hardly see the players hanging the manager out to dry

Not trying to argue - just stating a fact

 

[blue62]

I don't think the players are trying to hang him out to dry, I just think they don't buy into his system and struggle to understand what is expected of them, in short they look to have lost confidence. I have it on reasonably good authority that RM's fate will be decided after the semi, came from a bloke who seems to call it right at least 75% of the time so there's some hope.

 

[neil999]

I don't think the players are trying to hang him out to dry, I just think they don't buy into his system and struggle to understand what is expected of them, in short they look to have lost confidence. I have it on reasonably good authority that RM's fate will be decided after the semi, came from a bloke who seems to call it right at least 75% of the time so there's some hope.

agree, the last couple of games show they are still trying..we arent getting turned over by teams(yet!) but somethign isnt right

 

[Khalekan]

See thats the thing, the tactics technically are fine. you have 6 defensive players and 4 offensive, i see how that works. But then it sorta relates to my question, and the general question of why a team with 4 defenders and 2 holding midfielders leak goals every game? So yeah, i can see what McCarthy does, and i can see what he doesn't do but everyone seems to pile praise on Barry in the same role and yet he is no better at doing it, or at protecting anyone. It is almost like martinez has made him the lynchpin so the team doesn't function without him despite his limited effectivness.

Perhaps barry is good in that role and its his partner that is at fault, i havent exclusively watched him play only to make that thought. Perhaps playing with 2 holding doesn't work. Either way, there is a problem not addressed yet we have enough players to fix it in the future.

Ash....it doesn't work because A) we don't pass the ball well enough and B) we don't pass it quickly enough

 

[Papa Shango]

Th

I don't think the players actually matter in this set up, Messi would struggle because our plays too labourious and slow. The players somewhat get a free pass from me because of how poor our manager is wrt fitness, motivation etc. We'll see when a new manager comes in if we overhype players or not.

Praise from Booby Martinez is no praise, he gushes about everyone.

The main issue for me is that our players simply dont move enough. They just stand around and wait for the ball. No wonder the play is slow and laborious.

The difference when Davies came on was like night and day. Passed the ball and then moved to make space for a pass back to him. Its the difference between when we were good under Martinez and now. is it the players? Is it the manager? I have no idea. Either way I would quite happily ditch a fair few of them next season.

 

[Ashtonian]

Ash....it doesn't work because A) we don't pass the ball well enough and B) we don't pass it quickly enough

Which aye, that does go back to the manager. I think most tactical discussions can source back to him if we actually be honest.

the issue then from what you say is that both McCarthy and Barkley alone are players who can move the ball quickly and play it forward. The middle two have at least one outlet on the right and technically have a cleverley when he plays, otherwise kone is god knows at the time. We have players there who can play the formation, but the formation does not work with the players. To me its a little bit of a issue with no actual answer, you would pick a lot of the players that we do have, yet they cannot get a result. They are good enough to play the tactics yet the tactics do't work for martinez.

 

[LouReedwalkonthewildside]

They are good enough to play the tactics yet the tactics do't work for martinez.

I remember after the Man U game someone saying that it looks like Martinez writes the players names on bits of paper, throws them up in the air, and then plays them wherever they land.

 

[Ashtonian]

I remember after the Man U game someone saying that it looks like Martinez writes the players names on bits of paper, throws them up in the air, and then plays them wherever they land.

As i said earlier in theory the formation and players do work. Having Ross, Del and lennon moving the ball quckly to a direct lukaku with 6 players to soak up pressure, that works. McCarhy is good defensive player, barry apparently is as well.

But how can you have 8 months of not playing a left side midfielder, nor sign one at any point and then wonder why tactically the team is struggling? Its a bit like playing one centre half and wondering why your defense seems to look weak.

I have noticed one thing that is missing completely is the drive of the team. Watch watford and palace in particular, if not united and arsenal. we had it last against west ham and after that, it just vanished. when we win the ball, there is no urgency or anyone to drive the ball up pitch like we used to. the ball seems to move up like on the training ground, like the emphasis is give the ball to rom and he can score, not matter where he is or how many defenders are in front of him.

Im probably rambling on a tangent typing thoughts here but if they make sense, great.

 

[Khalekan]

I remember after the Man U game someone saying that it looks like Martinez writes the players names on bits of paper, throws them up in the air, and then plays them wherever they land.

That tactic worked well for David Bowie when he was writing songs, apparently.

He used to write lines of sings on bits of paper, jumble them up and see how it worked out

 

[Charles Hawtrey]

The point I was trying to make mate, was that the players have not thrown the last few games. Hence why we've not been beaten.

Sure, not great results, but I hardly see the players hanging the manager out to dry

Not trying to argue - just stating a fact

Still searching for the fact in this post!

 

[TheHumbleEgg]

Th


The main issue for me is that our players simply dont move enough. They just stand around and wait for the ball. No wonder the play is slow and laborious.

The difference when Davies came on was like night and day. Passed the ball and then moved to make space for a pass back to him. Its the difference between when we were good under Martinez and now. is it the players? Is it the manager? I have no idea. Either way I would quite happily ditch a fair few of them next season.

...I genuinely don't think it's a fit squad. I don't believe they're worked hard enough, IMO this is illustrated perfectly by the amount of niggling injuries picked up, in particular hamstrings. There's little staying power in the squad at all and that's a conditioning issue for me. How often do you see some of them utterly pooped at 70 minutes....there was a time (seems YEARS ago now) when that'd could've been blamed on the tempo of play, not now though. It's laborious at best.

The sooner he's offed now the better for me. A pick-me-up is needed and the only way that'll happen is with a bit of a sweep.

I'd sooner see the kids play their bollocks off than watch 1st teamers shot of confidence and faith in the manager.

 

[maccavennie]

...I genuinely don't think it's a fit squad. I don't believe they're worked hard enough, IMO this is illustrated perfectly by the amount of niggling injuries picked up, in particular hamstrings. There's little staying power in the squad at all and that's a conditioning issue for me. How often do you see some of them utterly pooped at 70 minutes....there was a time (seems YEARS ago now) when that'd could've been blamed on the tempo of play, not now though. It's laborious at best.

The sooner he's offed now the better for me. A pick-me-up is needed and the only way that'll happen is with a bit of a sweep.

I'd sooner see the kids play their bollocks off than watch 1st teamers shot of confidence and faith in the manager.

Spot on mate

 

[bluewally]

That tactic worked well for David Bowie when he was writing songs, apparently.

He used to write lines of sings on bits of paper, jumble them up and see how it worked out

I've only heard that when watching Luther

Is it actually true

 

[TheHumbleEgg]

Spot on mate

...for all his faults like but do you recall years ago, under MOYES, you'd actually get players kinda moaning (in a nice way like) in the press about the training, d'ya remember? Players saying it was tough etc, that it was 'hard work' when he'd have them running the beach pre-season, all that jazz...numerous stating that if they didn't get something in training then it was gone over and over and over 'til they DID get it. That they were often called in for extra's etc....

They were well-drilled, defence-savvy and if they weren't hitting the mark fitness wise then they weren't in the squad 'til they were (odd occasion aside)...

Don't hear much of that now do we? The manager spends pre-season on TV, senior players openly admit there is little defensive work going on at FF and we've got 13.5 million quids worth of abject averageness on the bench despite the fact he's allegedly 'not fit'.

Fingers crossed for AUGUST though eh, he'll be ready then it seems....Goooooooooo OUMAaaaaarrrr.

I'll state again why he's on the bench, via good authority, he's on the bench as a complete 'face-saver' for BOB because he's bought an utter, absolute dud. Not the kids fault like (Kid...he's abaaaaar 46) but the excuses are insulting...

It gets more farcical by the day.