Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)
- Thread starter Fat Stan
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hktoffee
Birds of a feather flock together
Just out of curiosity, when will be the time you believe is the right moment to draw a line on his regime? I was calling for sacking Martinez last season and I understand your decision in giving him another season to rectify his results and weaknesses. Now that this season is coming to an end he has not improved and we are staying in the bottom half. 21 wins out of 71 PL games and worst home records ever are facts that you may have to consider. I respect your opinion on wanting him to remain but on what evidences or facts that have convinced you he is the right person to lead this great football club in long terms? Or even to another level. I only see a continuity of regression under his management. That's why I want him gone no matter he wins the FA Cup or not. The league form is horrendous.
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This. I wanted to hang him from the humber bridge with the free scarf we got at the turnstile.
TheFinnFan
Finners
Sack him...
kithnou
Player Valuation: £70m
There you go..
AdelaideToffee
Player Valuation: £25k
I'm adding my "I just changed my vote" post (of which I'm sure there's been many). Purely down to the fact I think he's lost the players (again, which I'm sure a lot of people have said already).
I held on this long because I like his philosophy on how football should be played (in contrast to the Tony Pulis' of the world), but if the players don't buy into it, it doesn't matter.
We've seen what it could be, both collectively (the press against Chelsea in the cup) and individually (think of Besic's passion and determination earlier in the season), but I can't see that coming back. In hindsight, those examples were driven by external factors (the chance to progress in the cup, Besic wanting to make an impact after being out of the team for so long) and that was even more evident against Southampton. Players like Osman and Kone, who you would think are playing for their Everton careers seemed to be going through the motions. The only two highlights that showed determination to play for the shirt were Mori (who just loves a goal) and the youth players, who would have been dreaming of their debut for years. With Martinez at the helm and the feeling around the locker room, you'd hate to see the enthusiasm die out quickly (on a side note, I'd love to see them start in the derby!)
In summary, once the players don't believe in the leader, there's no coming back. Despite there being tough(er) times in the past, there's always been the endevour from the players and that's not there now. I'd like it to work out, but I think it's too late
I held on this long because I like his philosophy on how football should be played (in contrast to the Tony Pulis' of the world), but if the players don't buy into it, it doesn't matter.
We've seen what it could be, both collectively (the press against Chelsea in the cup) and individually (think of Besic's passion and determination earlier in the season), but I can't see that coming back. In hindsight, those examples were driven by external factors (the chance to progress in the cup, Besic wanting to make an impact after being out of the team for so long) and that was even more evident against Southampton. Players like Osman and Kone, who you would think are playing for their Everton careers seemed to be going through the motions. The only two highlights that showed determination to play for the shirt were Mori (who just loves a goal) and the youth players, who would have been dreaming of their debut for years. With Martinez at the helm and the feeling around the locker room, you'd hate to see the enthusiasm die out quickly (on a side note, I'd love to see them start in the derby!)
In summary, once the players don't believe in the leader, there's no coming back. Despite there being tough(er) times in the past, there's always been the endevour from the players and that's not there now. I'd like it to work out, but I think it's too late
Ashtonian
Banned on request
Think the biggest indicator of this was Davies on Saturday. The difference in fight and enthusiasm between him and the actual squad was amazing, shows you exactly what the team is missing. You can't tell me the team have lost faith when you see how they play compared to a young academy lad who has no inclination to the manager other than made up he is getting on the pitch.I'm adding my "I just changed my vote" post (of which I'm sure there's been many). Purely down to the fact I think he's lost the players (again, which I'm sure a lot of people have said already).
I held on this long because I like his philosophy on how football should be played (in contrast to the Tony Pulis' of the world), but if the players don't buy into it, it doesn't matter.
We've seen what it could be, both collectively (the press against Chelsea in the cup) and individually (think of Besic's passion and determination earlier in the season), but I can't see that coming back. In hindsight, those examples were driven by external factors (the chance to progress in the cup, Besic wanting to make an impact after being out of the team for so long) and that was even more evident against Southampton. Players like Osman and Kone, who you would think are playing for their Everton careers seemed to be going through the motions. The only two highlights that showed determination to play for the shirt were Mori (who just loves a goal) and the youth players, who would have been dreaming of their debut for years. With Martinez at the helm and the feeling around the locker room, you'd hate to see the enthusiasm die out quickly (on a side note, I'd love to see them start in the derby!)
In summary, once the players don't believe in the leader, there's no coming back. Despite there being tough(er) times in the past, there's always been the endevour from the players and that's not there now. I'd like it to work out, but I think it's too late
EvertonRhys
Knee jerker
I'm adding my "I just changed my vote" post (of which I'm sure there's been many). Purely down to the fact I think he's lost the players (again, which I'm sure a lot of people have said already).
I held on this long because I like his philosophy on how football should be played (in contrast to the Tony Pulis' of the world), but if the players don't buy into it, it doesn't matter.
We've seen what it could be, both collectively (the press against Chelsea in the cup) and individually (think of Besic's passion and determination earlier in the season), but I can't see that coming back. In hindsight, those examples were driven by external factors (the chance to progress in the cup, Besic wanting to make an impact after being out of the team for so long) and that was even more evident against Southampton. Players like Osman and Kone, who you would think are playing for their Everton careers seemed to be going through the motions. The only two highlights that showed determination to play for the shirt were Mori (who just loves a goal) and the youth players, who would have been dreaming of their debut for years. With Martinez at the helm and the feeling around the locker room, you'd hate to see the enthusiasm die out quickly (on a side note, I'd love to see them start in the derby!)
In summary, once the players don't believe in the leader, there's no coming back. Despite there being tough(er) times in the past, there's always been the endevour from the players and that's not there now. I'd like it to work out, but I think it's too late
Great post that mate. Despite some people saying it's the team to blame, the fact the team aren't turning out at the moment is a greater reflection of the fact they no longer can rely on Martinez to lead them. As sad as it may be, there's no coming back for him. Just wish we had made a decision on him a fortnight ago, then we would have been able to have a positive feel leading into such a huge week. That's Everton though!
Thinks: "Now where exactly did I put that dressing room?"
Really good post.I'm adding my "I just changed my vote" post (of which I'm sure there's been many). Purely down to the fact I think he's lost the players (again, which I'm sure a lot of people have said already).
I held on this long because I like his philosophy on how football should be played (in contrast to the Tony Pulis' of the world), but if the players don't buy into it, it doesn't matter.
We've seen what it could be, both collectively (the press against Chelsea in the cup) and individually (think of Besic's passion and determination earlier in the season), but I can't see that coming back. In hindsight, those examples were driven by external factors (the chance to progress in the cup, Besic wanting to make an impact after being out of the team for so long) and that was even more evident against Southampton. Players like Osman and Kone, who you would think are playing for their Everton careers seemed to be going through the motions. The only two highlights that showed determination to play for the shirt were Mori (who just loves a goal) and the youth players, who would have been dreaming of their debut for years. With Martinez at the helm and the feeling around the locker room, you'd hate to see the enthusiasm die out quickly (on a side note, I'd love to see them start in the derby!)
In summary, once the players don't believe in the leader, there's no coming back. Despite there being tough(er) times in the past, there's always been the endevour from the players and that's not there now. I'd like it to work out, but I think it's too late
I still believe we will see more expansive winning football over the next few seasons. Players confidence can turn round completely in a couple of games. I think you're mainly talking about desire though and I think when a season is fizzling out like this there have to be players on the pitch that reminds them what it means to play for this club. If Martinez finds that on the pitch and the fans respond then things will look very different for him and for Everton.
Ashtonian
Banned on request
I am looking forward to a revamp of the team and players this summer because under martinez it just doesn't make sense anymore. I am beginning to question though what some players do in the team. say for example;
Gareth Barry. What does he do? He protects the back four is the stock answer to that, wonderful, except the back 4 don't really get protected all that much do they? He could be a semi captain/orginiser for the manager except he isn't that either. He throws a few tackles in and breaks play up but in his primary role in the team, over a 90 minute game does he actually do his job or are we praising the best of a bad bunch when saying he is good? Comparable to Gerrard in that respect, liverpool fans praise him despite him being a bit average by the end, everyone but they could see it.
Im not singling Gareth out but i'm using him as an example, for a experienced player who is meant to be one of our (sadly) better players, he doesn't exactly do the role that well surely? compare him to lee carsley who did actually protect the defence in a similar role for us, him being injured dropped us to 17th, him being fit again got us to 4th on 1- wins.
All i am asking really is that if the team tactics aren't working then is it down to the players not being able to cover the roles or is it down to poor management in general. Like you know if we have a weakness for crosses its because roberto has sent the fullbacks down the pitch or has switched to 3 at the back to open that space up for the other team. You know Lukaku not scoring is down to him being 15 yards away from everyone and expected to hold a whole defence off and score by himself. I could go on with this ramble but yeah, is this really just a case of not having the right players to play the tactics at times, hence the reason why they don't actually work?
Gareth Barry. What does he do? He protects the back four is the stock answer to that, wonderful, except the back 4 don't really get protected all that much do they? He could be a semi captain/orginiser for the manager except he isn't that either. He throws a few tackles in and breaks play up but in his primary role in the team, over a 90 minute game does he actually do his job or are we praising the best of a bad bunch when saying he is good? Comparable to Gerrard in that respect, liverpool fans praise him despite him being a bit average by the end, everyone but they could see it.
Im not singling Gareth out but i'm using him as an example, for a experienced player who is meant to be one of our (sadly) better players, he doesn't exactly do the role that well surely? compare him to lee carsley who did actually protect the defence in a similar role for us, him being injured dropped us to 17th, him being fit again got us to 4th on 1- wins.
All i am asking really is that if the team tactics aren't working then is it down to the players not being able to cover the roles or is it down to poor management in general. Like you know if we have a weakness for crosses its because roberto has sent the fullbacks down the pitch or has switched to 3 at the back to open that space up for the other team. You know Lukaku not scoring is down to him being 15 yards away from everyone and expected to hold a whole defence off and score by himself. I could go on with this ramble but yeah, is this really just a case of not having the right players to play the tactics at times, hence the reason why they don't actually work?
applecrumble
Player Valuation: £10m
http://www.101greatgoals.com/blog/s...date-on-roberto-martinez-on-the-train-tweets/
Well according to this he's not going anywhere for at least another season. What a joke.
Well according to this he's not going anywhere for at least another season. What a joke.
Ashtonian
Banned on request
For me i mean it like playing say Ferdinand in defence. Talking how great he is on the ball, great at shouting at people, great at this etc but then we concede goals through the middle anyway.
I wouldn't read anything into that whatsoever mate. I don't think Bill or Moshiri would publicly be saying Martinez is getting the hook as in this day and age of social networking, it would be online within an hour of the game being finished.
Best for them to say nowt and hopefully actions will speak louder than words as soon as this season is over.
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