Defensive changes for next season

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Zatara said:
Interesting you mention Jonas Hector, it looks like hes the German 1st choice left back for the forseeable future at still playing at Koln. Looks to be a good all rounder but if we signed him then would you then also move on Baines, Oviedo and Garbutt leaving Galloway and him on the left side?

Geis is another interesting one and still just 22 but would cost a pretty penny from Schalke i think. I agree that what would really help us would be a top notch player just in front of the defence, obviously we couldnt get Busquets and Niguez wouldnt leave Atletico but we would need someone relatively young who would most likely need time to adapt...

The thing is though, we have players coming through who could be ideal at RB like Kenny/Holgate and also LB like Galloway/Connolly who all have different strengths and weaknesses. Should we spend big on full backs now or take a short term 'hit' and try and get these players into the team playing games as much as possible?

Same can be said for the midfield with Ledson/Walsh and others...

Do we bring in say 2 young players for each position and alternate them based on form or do we bring in someone like a Hector and then effectively block their path and cover the position now with quality?
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Interesting points raised here and fair point. On Hector, I think bringing a player of his quality would be a significant move in the transfer market and would set us up well for the next few years, I would say. Baines' future to me is in a Lahm role personally, able to cover the LB role but being deployed as a long passer and diagonal passer in the midfield. Oviedo is obviously an excellent talent, but I think he needs to move away to continue his development, so I would probably choose him to move on. Galloway's future as well is uncertain, he obviously has talent but he is being players out of position at the moment, and his long-term future lies at CB, same goes for Browning and Holgate potentially.

Geis would cost a pretty penny and is being courted heavily by several big clubs, but would be absolutely perfect for our system, Niguez has the ability to adapt to that role and is a pretty good passer as well. Perhaps a left-field option could fill the gap, maybe Bruno Zuculini could be trained to fill the role, he's pretty adaptable but his goal-scoring record lacks a certain something. If we're looking in the lower-leagues, Kayal or George Thorne could be pretty good players to rotate in that position. Combine that with a constructive, organised pressing system and we'll be a lot better off.
 

Papa Shango said:
Why would he? Its a very simplistic way of looking at things.

How the hell am I "chatting bubbles"? he is first team development coach.

Its blaming a bloke for something he Isn't responsible for! Its like saying its Kevin Sheedy's fault we cant take a good set piece. He was deadly at them when he played but that's not his job.
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You are chatting bubbles as you have literally no idea what happens at Finch Farm, thus anything you say about coaches roles is wild speculation on your part and displays an eagerness to feel "ITK" here at GOT. You know more than no other person here, stop acting like you do.
 
HuddersfieldToffee said:
Here's my two cents. We need a left-back who can play week-in, week-out so we can move Baines into the Central Midfield position for certain games where he'll get through less running and allow his killer boot to really make an impact. Someone decently young and energetic with a decent cross and the ability to defend and keep it tight, someone like Jonas Hector, 25, good at defending and chipping in a few goals as well. I'd bring in a CB to play along side Stones and build the heart of a defensive unit.

If we're getting De Boer (oi oi), then someone like Joël Veltman would be an absolute shout, good on the ball and a good tackler, 24 as well with title-winning experience at Ajax.

Also, pivotal to a defensive change is a new half-back to play alongside McCarthy, who is a roaming forward-sweeper rather than a disciplined half-back, in the role currently occupied by Gareth Barry. Someone like Saul, 21 from Atletico would do this to good effect, or, further afield, we could attempt to lure Johannes Geis from Schalke. He's the archetypal half-back, strong, good at dictating tempo, able to tackle and able to distribute further up field, he would really stabilise our ball-retention and circulation.
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F knows who they are, but sounds boss. I'm in x
 

I would like to see our full backs and centre midfielders trying to prevent the ball going in the box, the centre backs trying to win the ball when it does going in the box, and our goalkeeper trying to stop the ball when somebody kicks it at the goal.
 
HuddersfieldToffee said:
Interesting points raised here and fair point. On Hector, I think bringing a player of his quality would be a significant move in the transfer market and would set us up well for the next few years, I would say. Baines' future to me is in a Lahm role personally, able to cover the LB role but being deployed as a long passer and diagonal passer in the midfield. Oviedo is obviously an excellent talent, but I think he needs to move away to continue his development, so I would probably choose him to move on. Galloway's future as well is uncertain, he obviously has talent but he is being players out of position at the moment, and his long-term future lies at CB, same goes for Browning and Holgate potentially.

Geis would cost a pretty penny and is being courted heavily by several big clubs, but would be absolutely perfect for our system, Niguez has the ability to adapt to that role and is a pretty good passer as well. Perhaps a left-field option could fill the gap, maybe Bruno Zuculini could be trained to fill the role, he's pretty adaptable but his goal-scoring record lacks a certain something. If we're looking in the lower-leagues, Kayal or George Thorne could be pretty good players to rotate in that position. Combine that with a constructive, organised pressing system and we'll be a lot better off.
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Left back -- So, effectively move on Oviedo and move Baines into an other role + sell Garbutt (I assume). Then bring in Jonas Hector at left back as first choice.

That would definitely be an upgrade and i do really like the choice of player as he's a realistic signing and has come from the lower leagues and forced his way into the Koln team to be their best player as well as the national side--for a left back thats really impressive and at 25 years old still.

I do think we need a young English player to compete with him though + with Baines and him in the squad hopefully that player would improve their all round game. With that in mind i would ordinarily seek to keep Galloway as 2nd choice but due to Baines being in the squad he may as well be loaned out to a championship or league one side to get a season full of games. What i would do is take a bit of a punt on someone else, Rico Henry from Walsall who is potentially a top player but would need to be developed.

We would then have:
Hector 1st choice
Baines (in another role but can cover)
Rico Henry being developed
Galloway on loan for a season

Personally i think that looks splendid.


Defensive midfield-- If we go with a 'half back' and brought in Geis then slotted in Baines next to him thst could be interesting and i assume you would have McCarthy and Besic as rotation options?

For me, alot depends on Walsh/Ledson and how they look in the summer. Lets say (like galloway) they need another season on loan.

Based upon what we know, Barry is 35 now and not a solution long term,McCarthy 'could be' able to take his game up a level if he didnt need to cover Barry and Besic has been constantly injured.

I think the players you mentioned are good choices and Thorne has been mentioned last season i think as a target, however i would like to see us make a bit of a splash in the summer.

If we went with Geis (strange he hasnt been capped by germany yet!) and had the 3 above as squad players pushing for a starting spot then that should actually be enough with baines also adapting to play a role there. However i would love us to sign Tielemans or Navas to play alongside Geis. Neither of them would be the 'midfield general' and i think tactically McCarthy or Besic would compliment Geis better but i think long term both can adapt positionally and either sit deep or play a box to box role if needed. Pretty big fees required for Geis and one of them (preferably Tielemans as he has shown he can play a few position) but we would look very strong.

Geis
Tielemans
McCarthy
Besic
Barry (mentoring Tielemans and moving into coaching)
Ledson /Walsh on loan


If we were able to sign Hector/Henry/Geis/Tielemans then we would be very strong indeed and have great potential coming through behind them as well as Baines competing in both positions. Hector and Henry combined shouldnt be more than £15mil but the midfielders would be expensive so perhaps we could only sign one of them. I'd probably agree on Geis as he has more experience than Tielemans and his passing out to the wingers would be fantastic to watch and potentially lethal. Would be great to have both!

How about the centre and right back positions?
 
I'd say keep the backline exactly where it is, then get a new manager that likes to organise a defence. We have fantastic defenders. 3 play for England and one of them we got a 40 million offer for at age 21, Coleman is a lethal player, one the best right backs going.
 
@HuddersfieldToffee

On the German theme a few posters were saying that Benedikt Howedes has a release clause of under £10mil. As schalkes captain and playing alongside Hummels (and Hector) for Germany he could be a good player to havs alongside Stones. I'd much rather look at Tah but am wary of the need for some experience in there and not sure if he would have the defensive organisational ability needed. Would be very cool on paper to have Stones and Tah in the centre though.
 

JAYTALITY said:
I'd say keep the backline exactly where it is, then get a new manager that likes to organise a defence. We have fantastic defenders. 3 play for England and one of them we got a 40 million offer for at age 21, Coleman is a lethal player, one the best right backs going.
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Do you think a top level manager such as Mourinho would keep the same players?

I think the only one he would keep would be Stones as 1st choice.

Baines has been dropped by England and Jags going as 4th choice so not as they were before + coleman looks good going forward but suspect defensively in his positioning i think.

With martinez he changed alot of the midfield/attack and a more defensive minded manager i think would change the backline.
 
Zatara said:
Do you think a top level manager such as Mourinho would keep the same players?

I think the only one he would keep would be Stones as 1st choice.

Baines has been dropped by England and Jags going as 4th choice so not as they were before + coleman looks good going forward but suspect defensively in his positioning i think.

With martinez he changed alot of the midfield/attack and a more defensive minded manager i think would change the backline.
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Murinho wouldn't touch Everton with a barged pole. That's dreamland stuff. Going forward into next season our defence is good quality. Baines and Jags are suffering because of the manager the should be first choice and were not so long ago. Both are top players. Maybe Jags is getting on we will need someone to partner stones but not straight away, Jags is a top defender to be learning from. You probably have forgotten how good he can be but I don't blame you. And you probably forgot how Baines is one the best lbs in the world, statistically and I still don't blame you . I'll cite Martinez again.
 
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JAYTALITY said:
Murinho wouldn't touch Everton with a barged pole. That's dreamland stuff. Going forward into next season our defence is good quality. Baines and Jags are suffering because of the manager the should be first choice and were not so long ago. Both are top players. Maybe Jags is getting on we will need someone to partner stones but not straight away, Jags is a top defender to be learning from. You probably have forgotten how good he can be but I don't blame you. And you probably forgot how Baines is one the best lbs in the world, statistically and I still don't blame you . I'll cite Martinez again.
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For mourinho i was just referencing him as i would think that our defence would be changed under him or someone new who would build from the back.

On Jagielka @Simon baker posted above about the defenders who dominate and organize in defence. For me, Jags is a top defender but personally i dont think he has the leadership qualities to be considered a 'winner' as some of those others named have. He's a good player but 34 at season start. My own feeling is that hes a good club captain but perhaps we need someone new to come in as the team captain on the pitch.

Stones is, well he's john stones isnt he? He needs someone alongside him to learn from and although i feel strongly that Mori is going to really improve next season i dont see either of them being our 'Terry/Adams/Hendry" type defender who can organize the defence and intimidate the opposition.

With Watson and Gough you knew that they were leaders...Jagielka not for me. I think we need someone in there alongside Stones in that mould.

With that in mind i think we should sign an overseas player who can become our lynchpin and defensive "captain". Either someone at their peak say 26-28 years old or a young player who can become this player after a season of being "mentored" by Jagielka himself....


Personally i think baines has been well below par for 2 years now. I think injuries could be partly responsible and at 31 hes not really old and could have 3 seasons in him but i think these injuries seem to be happening frequently now and at the moment hes apparently carrying one. So both he and Oviedo as options at left back, whilst strong on paper arent consistently available at full fitness.


What i would really like to see is the defence totally remodelled but this is going to be a transition allowing the players like Galloway, Holgate, Kenny etc to come through into fhe squad.

I just look at it and think that it lacks a true inspirational leader and also lacks depth which is funny as we have 4 left backs on the books.
 

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