Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[Toffeelover]

Just been told that Roberto offered to resign after Saturdays game. Offer was refused by Moshiri.

That's all I know.

Should not have offered to resign, should have resigned full stop!

 

[Abertonian]

Mr Mohiri wants to pay him out does he?

Perhaps doesnt want to destabilise the club ahead of a midweek game until he has a plan for succession in place.

 

[orchard]

You don't listen too well for a sentinel.

I have no problem with the poll, the result etc...

Here's my problem. You want to run a poll and sack him now. Feckin' go for it. Take Kendall and Catterick out of the equation cause there's was a whole lot of supporters then, who wanted them out and there wasn't any polls around at that time.

I've stated time and again, never wanted Martinez, look at the names above, I'm all for out. You want to sack a manager on an eve of a semi final. That's just unrealistic and certainly doesn't come under the mindset of Bill Kenwright.

Just what are you hoping to achieve here? Is it that unreasonable to suggest that taking a good, long hard look at it at the end of the season, isn't preferential to Polls and demanding him out now?

 

[kithnou]

Perhaps doesnt want to destabilise the club ahead of a midweek game until he has a plan for succession in place.

Yes, no doubt. I was being cheeky mate.

 

[PhilM]

Perhaps doesnt want to destabilise the club ahead of a midweek game until he has a plan for succession in place.

I'm still somewhat sceptical about Martinez ever offering resign, which is not a dig at you @tommye but rather looking at Martinez's mentality.

Yet if it is true, then the fact a cup semi-final is near could be a big factor in any refusal from the top echelons of the club.

Also, if they do not have a successor yet lined up to replace him then allowing him to walk away may cause more issues than finding one first.

Still as I said, I sincerely doubt Martinez would ever offer to resign - he seems far, far too stubborn and self-righteous for such a graceful act.

 

[oldblue]

Ok i'll answer in parts to this to make it clearer to read.

1. Difference between everton and wigan? Good attacking play? Poor defence? Not winning games? Dropping down the league year on year? Sounds pretty similar to me considering it is the same manager and same tactics.

2. As for getting shot? We are 15th in the league mate in April. Not too long ago it was what a manager from our chairman. If they follow the same belief that you have in the manager (or few others on here) then say he wins the cup, but we find ourselves 15th next season at the same point, except the bottom 3 aren't as bad as they are this year and can actually catch us? There is plenty of credible ground, cup or not, that would suggest that martinez may not get sacked at all.

3. True, we haven't sold star players before, but none of them have scored 25 goals in a season before, which is a huge commodity in football to sign. Plus he has announced in march he wants to leave, so he will be gone. The club might be bigger than one player here and there mate, but those 25 goals this year....they are kinda a rare commodity to us to have, seeings though he is our best striker since 1993 for scoring in a season! So for all the record keepers out there, that is 23 years since we had a goal scorer anywhere near this level in the league, so yeah, not so easy to replace that is it?

4. and finally, it is just incredible that you constantly ignore the comparisons to Wigan even now. The records are so similar, with the same manager, the same tactics, the same league positions, the same average of wins, and the same dropping down the league happening. Look it up, they are similar, to think otherwise is just literally turning a blind eye to what is going on.

but giving martinez time here to send us further down is not a whole season mate. Newcastle going down this year are because of the first 4 month form, completely destroyed them. same as villa, only winning 2 games, kinda killed them off before they got going. All it would take is a half season of 'its the europa league's / euros / fans / anyone but the manager / bad luck' and we could really be struggling down there to pick results up, martinez or no martinez.

And for all the managers suggested, Emery/Koeman/Biesla/Mourhinio, none of them would come to us if we were struggling in the league yet again, take the blue tinted glasses off and you get a essentially a team looking like they are going down to every other fan in the country. 11th - 14th (could be 16th after this weeks games) and potentially keep losing and dropping points and norwich can catch us.

(oh and conveniently forgetting palace havent won a game this year until the weekend, double it and they move above us n the league, 1 promoted team above us, one level on points, west brom and swansea who were in relegation battles not long ago above us, how many more warning signs do fans need that this just isnt good enough? )

1 Wigan were a non league club when I was born. And have been in the lower regions for most of their time since. They were boosted by one person's money and ambition but like most team without a sound basis were always going to struggle to stay in the Premiere league for long.
His style is obviously similar to the one that ultimately didn't keep Wigan up but did well at Swansea. It's no more relevant than looking at where Moyes, Kendall or Smith came from and thinking that's how we'll end up.

2 We are now14th and for the time being nobody can argue with that but projections that it'll get worse are only as valid as ones that it will get better.
Based on what our goal difference indicates I'd stake a lot of money on us being higher. And even a similar performance next season I believe would see us higher up the league based on how few of the fine margins have gone for us this season. Not saying we shouldn't be doing better than that or I can prove it. But we didn't get relegated with much worse teams. Not even when we started with five points from fifteen games under Walker. So I'm sticking with my guess rather than yours.

3 We sold Lineker and won the league. Sold Rooney and came fourth. Very spurious to suggest a player who always made it clear that he sees us a stepping stone would have stayed. We'll make a huge profit if he goes and change focus of attacks.
4 isn't the Wigan thing just point one.
As for a replacement we don't know a thing about which managers will come here. The board will know and what will bring them here. It may be reassurances about being given time. And investment. They aren't going to come thinking the club themselves will guarantee success.

 

[Khalekan]

I'm still somewhat sceptical about Martinez ever offering resign, which is not a dig at you @tommye but rather looking at Martinez's mentality.

Yet if it is true, then the fact a cup semi-final is near could be a big factor in any refusal from the top echelons of the club.

Also, if they do not have a successor yet lined up to replace him then allowing him to walk away may cause more issues than finding one first.

Still as I said, I sincerely doubt Martinez would ever offer to resign - he seems far, far too stubborn and self-righteous for such a graceful act.

Nowt to do with him being stubborn or self righteous I suspect.

To resign means he walks away from a fortune in compensation.

Football managers wait for the axe to fall for that reason.......and it never affects their prospects of landing anther well paid gig.

Not that I think he offered to resign anyway.....Tommy is reeling you in

 

[tommye]

Nowt to do with him being stubborn or self righteous I suspect.

To resign means he walks away from a fortune in compensation.

Football managers wait for the axe to fall for that reason.......and it never affects their prospects of landing anther well paid gig.

Not that I think he offered to resign anyway.....Tommy is reeling you in

like I said. Not my style.

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

1 Wigan were a non league club when I was born. And have been in the lower regions for most of their time since. They were boosted by one person's money and ambition but like most team without a sound basis were always going to struggle to stay in the Premiere league for long.
His style is obviously similar to the one that ultimately didn't keep Wigan up but did well at Swansea. It's no more relevant than looking at where Moyes, Kendall or Smith came from and thinking that's how we'll end up.

Martinez took over a swansea team which had the year before been defeated in the semi final of the league one play offs. The next season he introduced a new style of football that the league had never faced and got promoted. The season after he finished 8th in the championship. While its an achievement to be promoted, they weren't a struggling team by any regard and the change in style of football took that league by storm.

Paul Jewell and Steve Bruce done a good job at Wigan, finished higher then with Martinez which the team finished lower and lower.

 

[Sentinel]

You mentioned that timeline mate?

Yeah that timeline. My timeline has literally been the years I've wanted Kenwright out of the club. I've waited a long time. The last thing I want is to go against fellow Evertonians, saddens me to be honest. I used to post a lot, this season, change happening, started being more vocal, anyway like I said earlier, more reasons now to be optimistic. Like us all, just want the best for the club.

 

[oldblue]

Martinez took over a swansea team which had the year before been defeated in the semi final of the league one play offs. The next season he introduced a new style of football that the league had never faced and got promoted. The season after he finished 8th in the championship. While its an achievement to be promoted, they weren't a struggling team by any regard and the change in style of football took that league by storm.

Paul Jewell and Steve Bruce done a good job at Wigan, finished higher then with Martinez which the team finished lower and lower.

So again there's negatives and positives. We can't have it both ways.
Personally I don't think much of it relates to Everton

 

[kithnou]

I have no problem with the poll, the result etc...

Here's my problem. You want to run a poll and sack him now. Feckin' go for it. Take Kendall and Catterick out of the equation cause there's was a whole lot of supporters then, who wanted them out and there wasn't any polls around at that time.

I've stated time and again, never wanted Martinez, look at the names above, I'm all for out. You want to sack a manager on an eve of a semi final. That's just unrealistic and certainly doesn't come under the mindset of Bill Kenwright.

Just what are you hoping to achieve here? Is it that unreasonable to suggest that taking a good, long hard look at it at the end of the season, isn't preferential to Polls and demanding him out now?

Sorry that was meant to be "Who mentioned this timeline?"..as in who said the sacking was taking place before the semi?

 

[The Cowboy]

like I said. Not my style.

Surprising to say the least, if true. Disappointing result vs Watford, of course, but not worthy of resignation. Lose to the RS in a less than convincing manner and it'd be more appropriate.

 

[kithnou]

Surprising to say the least, if true. Disappointing result vs Watford, of course, but not worthy of resignation. Lose to the RS in a less than convincing manner and it'd be more appropriate.

Resign two days before the cup semi mate is more appropriate?

 

[Ashtonian]

1 Wigan were a non league club when I was born. And have been in the lower regions for most of their time since. They were boosted by one person's money and ambition but like most team without a sound basis were always going to struggle to stay in the Premiere league for long.
His style is obviously similar to the one that ultimately didn't keep Wigan up but did well at Swansea. It's no more relevant than looking at where Moyes, Kendall or Smith came from and thinking that's how we'll end up.

2 We are now14th and for the time being nobody can argue with that but projections that it'll get worse are only as valid as ones that it will get better.
Based on what our goal difference indicates I'd stake a lot of money on us being higher. And even a similar performance next season I believe would see us higher up the league based on how few of the fine margins have gone for us this season. Not saying we shouldn't be doing better than that or I can prove it. But we didn't get relegated with much worse teams. Not even when we started with five points from fifteen games under Walker. So I'm sticking with my guess rather than yours.

3 We sold Lineker and won the league. Sold Rooney and came fourth. Very spurious to suggest a player who always made it clear that he sees us a stepping stone would have stayed. We'll make a huge profit if he goes and change focus of attacks.
4 isn't the Wigan thing just point one.
As for a replacement we don't know a thing about which managers will come here. The board will know and what will bring them here. It may be reassurances about being given time. And investment. They aren't going to come thinking the club themselves will guarantee success.

Again the dismissal of Wigan as not a comparison. Thing is mate, his predecessor actually got wigan midtable, Jewell established them in the league despite the financial odds of them doing it, bruce took them higher and Martinez then had 3 attempts at relegating them. How can this be ignored or dismissed as not being valid? YOu are assuming wigan were always going down, there are many factors that could have happened with a different manager that could have kept them up. The hard fact is Martinez did relegate them, Bruce and Jewell didn't. Right now, take away a world class strikers goals and how terrible the bottom 3 have been over 2-3 years, and i propose the question, has MArtinez not had a pretty significant safety net to make the league form look more promising than it actually has been? I was even fooled into thinking this was all bad luck back in December! or the difficult start, or just one of those games etc.

2 Ok you talk about goal difference being a reflection? I would argue that the team tactics are so poor that no matter how many we score, we havent got the tactics to win a game. Look at watford at the weekend, we score in injury time and then straight away we concede from a....SET PIECE! Go back to west brom in september, to palace, to norwich, to bournemouth and we have struggled all season to conceding these goals. So when you find yourself 14th in the league in April and you are still struggling conceding the same goals you did back in september (which remember Lukaku scored 2 assisted 1 to win that game) then you have to ask very serious questions about what is actually happening on the training ground? And considering Martinez's own words have dismissed the need to practice set pieces, then i can't find anything defendable there anymore. Him and his coaches clearly cannot fix flaws in the team, and if he tries to you get performances like last season!

3 We had lineker and came second. But as for this point mate, what did we do before lineker? We won the CWC and the league! So a terrible comparison to make because the team was already successful under our greatest manager so it is far cry from going from Moyes to Martinez. Especially when you factor in Rooney was never a linchpin in Moyes's team, Lukaku pretty much is the difference between us and a couple more league places alone not including the cup runs. As for Moyes 4th season, those things happen, look at Leicester this year, it is possible for a team to come together and do well. right now we have our senior players talking about missing chemistry, yet these players have been playing together for a fair few years at least, so what is the reason why we somehow lack this chemistry/team spirit/ or whatever you want to call it yet some of them had it under their predecessor? Because the minute you start to remove key members of the team and you don't have it, you get what newcastle / Villa have right now.

We know exactly what type of managers would come here mate, thats the thing. Would Mourhino go to Norwich city or Bournemouth mate? And why won't they? So if we are essentially a bottom end of the leage team, it would take a hell of a lot of money (see Benitez now) to have them even consider picking the phone up. Personally i dont want to employ a manager for money, i want a manager to come here with ambition and do so because we aren't the team we have been looking for 2 years. We look exactly like what we currently are, a team that is in danger of dropping even further the longer it goes on, if cleverleys header hadnt gone in vs newcastle (remember last touch of the game) then we would already be 16th. And that is one header, in one game i am referencing, against one of the only teams in the league martinez could beat, and their are 19th.