Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[Blue Cheese]

The confidence has evaporated and we have a few confidence players, no surprise the results at the minute. Needs to go asap, he's destroying us from within.

 

[Thomasc]

We can point out the league position, we can point out the results over the last 18 months, we can point out that the great young players that we are supposed to have who are going backwards and looking like children who have lost all discipline and need their parents to step in and sort them out, we can point out about the complete piffle he spouts in his interviews and is now rightly being questioned over by the mainstream media.....and on and on and on......it's not going to change anybody's mind if they are convinced he will get it right eventually, despite all evidence pointing towards the opposite.

Not even direct quotes from himself or players about how unimportant he considers setting up defensively sound even matter astonishingly!

 

[bluestevon]

Don't know it's accuracy but Samuelson on the sunday supplement today mentioned that we are currently set to have the largest disparity between home and away points since the top league began - note not even the premier league but since the old first division started in the 1800's...

That is a truly stunning and damning stat if true

 

[Kiwi]

And we laughed at the RS over Rodgers

100% would do it again.

 

[EvertonRhys]

What did I write that was in your opinion unreasonable? I haven't criticised him, insulted him or IMO been unreasonable in pointing out that the results severely damage his point.

Ignore it mate. One minute saying this place is turning into kipper, the next that someone with a different opinion has come from RAWK. He'll be shouting "Kopite" soon. I was childish the other day too. Don't rise to it!

 

[Bilo]

Bored of a Sunday Morning, so started looking back at old Premier League Tables since 1996 for comparisons - that was when the League went to a 20 team/38 game season:

Teams since 1996 with less than 20pts at home in a season:
Bolton 95-96 19pts BOTTOM
Forest 96-97 18pts BOTTOM
Palace 97-98 11pts BOTTOM
Forest 98-99 16pts BOTTOM
Watford 99-00 19pts BOTTOM
Man City 00-01 15pts 18th Relegated
Coventry 00-01 19pts 19th Relegated
Bradford 00-01 19pts BOTTOM
Derby 01-02 19pts 19th Relegated
Leicester 01-02 16pts BOTTOM
West Brom 14pts 02-03 19th Relegated
Sunderland 11pts 02-03 BOTTOM
Blackburn 19pts 03-04 15th
Leicester 19pts 03-04 18th Relegated
Sunderland 7pts 05-06 BOTTOM
Wigan 19pts 06-07 17th
Watford 18pts 06-07 BOTTOM
Derby 8pts 07-08 BOTTOM
Hull City 14pts 08-09 17th
Portsmouth 18pts 09-10 20th BOTTOM
Villa 19pts 11-12 16th
Bolton 16pts 11-12 18th Relegated
Blackburn 19pts 11-12 19th Relegated
Wolves 12pts 11-12 BOTTOM
Wigan 18pts 12-13 18th Relegated
QPR 14pts 12-13 BOTTOM
Sunderland 18pts 13-14 14th
Fulham 18pts 13-14 19th Relegated
Burnley 19pts 14-15 19th Relegated

This Season:
Everton 16pts 15-16 (3 homes left)
Palace 12pts 15-16 (2 homes left)
Sunderland 17pts 15-16 (4 home games left)
Newcastle 18pts 15-16 (4 home games left)
Villa 10pts 15-16 (2 home games left)

So from those stats:
Everton on 16pts currently stand 9th for WORST home Record in a 38 game Prem season with 3 to go.

Since 1996, 29 teams have failed to reach 20pts at home in a season. 24 were relegated, only 5 have survived.

Only 1 team since 1996 with less than 18pts at home has ever survived relegation: Hull City with 14pts in 08-09.

Now for the worst stat: failure to win the last 3 home games will see us record our worst home record in our entire 128 year history. Based on 3pts for our win our previous lowest tally is 24pts. Regardless of the squad we have, that should be basis to sack him for that stat alone.


Thank God we've had '15 or 16 individuals that have had impressive campaigns, probably the best campaigns in their young careers in some of the cases.' Otherwise we really would be up the creek without a paddle eh!!??

 

[Pienaar's gloves]

Can't laugh at anyone really can we?

Villa.

 

[ToffeeTim]

As was pointed out yesterday by others, there's been all these horror stats floating around but they can be all summed up in one. We have been absolutely garbage on the whole since we beat Arsenal off the park almost two years to the day.

This isn't knee jerking. This isn't going out on a whim. We are fed up with the underachievement and it's blatantly obvious things won't improve under Martinez. The players aren't playing for him. They have zero faith in him and we need an urgent boost before Wembley.

Things will just continue to go downwards until the change is made and we are currently floundering in a state of limbo.

 

[jal123]

Villa.

This is always the answer lol

 

[Blue Cheese]

Just realised, I was reading back doing some catch up, and it all got a little tasty in here, then I noticed twas before yesterdays result, crikey cobba.

 

[MikeH72]

Aww man I remember the days we used to win games

 

[The Mighty Quint]

Samuel said on Sunday Supplement today we are on course to have the biggest difference in points between home and away games since the league started, like 1888 or something.

 

[Mogwai]

Its always Darkest before the dawn....

 

[bluestevon]

This is exactly the sort of post ive been asking for from people who want change.

A really well thought out brief on the type of manager + individual players + timeline for change and reasonable targets.

Well played. Cant fault it at all really...

Just to add my own opinion:

1-- The spine is attractive for a new manager. He has there,Stones--Barkley--Lukaku (lets assume the players see Mourinho or Loew come in and are excited and stay).

Those 3 are alll potentially world class, but at the moment it is potential as none of them have the ability of the superstars alone (not even lukaku as you say he still needs to improve). What we need is to have players around them in the spine to improve the team and also this will in turn compliment them and aid their development.

Martinez has done well here for me in playing them as much as possible. I firmly believe that they are now all better players for the trust he has placed in them but now they need to be taken on to the next level.

Keeper -- Dominant keeper is needed. Someone who the defence, manager and even the fans can trust. We saw the difference with Howard and Robles, imagine having a truly top keeper at the back. Breeds confidence.

Centre back -- Totally agree on Jagielka here, sound defender but not a leader in the mould of any of the top premier league winning captains over the years. We need a top player here with organizational and leadership skills. Someone who can compliment Stones and aid his development also.

Defensive/Centre midfield -- We basically have a terrier in McCarthy who cost £13mil and effectively does the donkey work for a 35 year old player and also an international player who is frequently injured. The game these days requires a truly top central pairing at the highest level and for all of the praise on Barry, he is not the way forward. We need to bring in a superstar midfield general here who can control games and who the opposition are worried about facing.

I think with those 3 signings we would have the basis of a very solid spine. It was good to read about Cillisen (though i think we could do better) and Manolas in the press as these are the types we need to dramatically improve the team.

Mourinho came into Chelsea and immediately focused on the spine with Essien etc coming in and doing for them precisely what we need now. Loew also came into the Germany job and the first thing he did was bring in solid players to compliment the attacking play Klinsmann had adopted.

Having said all that, i think Mourinho for example would want to change the full backs as well. They just arent solid enough defensively and also of course the left side as well as options from the bench.

Also, giving one of these top managers the reigns and a 3 year plan could be a wise move and attract top players +keep our stars on board. I am certain that we are attractive enough and we have the money to develop the squad.

The only thing holding me back really is that i am keen to see if Martinez with money could do all this himself in the summer....

Im not opposed to a top manager coming in (would be foolish not to recognise the benefits) but it would depend on who they were, what the plan was and what changes they would make (all hypothetical of course).

Thats the thing mate, Martinez has by playing them allowed their development to go fast, but all 3 are now starting to stagnate, and i agree 100% that they need to be taken onto the next level, Martinez has never in his previous time in this league shown an ability to do that, his players have developed to a point then stopped around the age of 22 or so - McCarthy right now looks no better than he did at Wigan at 22, some managers are just like that, able to give that confidence to a young player and trust them and allow them to initially develop well, after that point though it becomes harder and you need to really work with the player and develop their game and i honestly don't think martinez has that ability in him to do it.

In many ways the players become a reflection of he himeslf as a manager - intially bright and full of promise but with flaws that need working on and not balanced, but 7 years on - he still has those exact same flaws and the players he has worked with for a prolonged period of time still have those same intial flaws.

Look at the way a really top manager who has a exceptional talent such as Barkely or Stones moulds that player, Ferguson with Ferdinand, Zemon and Ericksen with Nesta, Lippi with Zidane, Inzaghi and Del Pierro all managers who took a player on from the touted but not quite their onto another level with a xcomplete all round game.

Theirs a reason a lot of great youth team coaches never make the step up to a senior level with clubs, because what they are good at is working with young players but they struggle when those players get older, Martinez struggles to develop players after they hit a certain age, can't think of one single player he had and who he improved after the age of about 23

 

[Whistlin' Dixie]

Samuel said on Sunday Supplement today we are on course to have the biggest difference in points between home and away games since the league started, like 1888 or something.