Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

[TommyDavo]

Just a thought but how about we get behind the team and manager until the end of the season ?

I personally will not support a manager who blames me, a match going fan, for his consistent failings. Everton, the team, I will support until the flames are licking my backside.

 

[Bungle]

Chaturbate has crashed

Except for the lone bald man on the homepage beating himself off hahaha

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

Shove it right up there lad.

Would still prefer that to what's happening to our forum at the moment.

I know mate it's a shocker that we should have the temerity to discuss our displeasure at the way we've been performing on an Everton forum.

 

[Boss_Blue]

You admit it's time for change, but then go on to call those Blues wishing to show their displeasure as bed wetters

No mate it's the manner in which that displeasure is expressed that I have a problem with.

Without the fanbase making known their views either at the match or on the net, phone ins etc, then the club could be lulled into thinking that we're accepting of the obvious failings of this manager

I have no problem with the fans making their displeasure known at the final whistle - in fact I think it's necessary. Also reasoned debate and opinions online are to be encouraged.

In response to the bolded bit you are making the assumption that the club would want to carry on with Martinez regardless of results.

Change at managerial level is often driven by supporters, as managers positions become untenable due to the vocal opinions of the fanbase

Mike Ashley says hello.

Your comments appear to intimate that we should all pipe down and trust that the club can second guess the majority view and take the right decision based solely on the results

No mate, not everyone just the pissy pants screechers on both sides of the camp that are embarrassing this forum and Evertonians in general.

 

[Boss_Blue]

I know mate it's a shocker that we should have the temerity to discuss our displeasure at the way we've been performing on an Everton forum.

I think you're viewing a different forum to me mate.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

No mate, not everyone just the pissy pants screechers on both sides of the camp that are embarrassing this forum and Evertonians in general.

People can say what they like, it's called free speech mate.

Embarrassing an Internet forum? Behave lol

This is a discussion that brings out passion, and I'm all for it. Some are passionately against and a smaller percentage are still prepared to give the bloke more time and explain why. What's wrong with that?

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

I think you're viewing a different forum to me mate.

No idea what that means

 

[Boss_Blue]

People can say what they like, it's called free speech mate.

Actually mate they can't but that's for another thread.

Embarrassing an Internet forum? Behave lol

I'm disappointed that you don't hold this site in as high regard as I and many others do mate.

This is a discussion that brings out passion, and I'm all for it. Some are passionately against and a smaller percentage are still prepared to give the bloke more time and explain why. What's wrong with that?

You have sidestepped the crux of my point. It is the way in which those opinions are expressed that is the issue here not the opinions themselves.

No idea what that means

And therein lies the problem.

 

[Foot Long Hot Dog]

I'm disappointed that you don't hold this site in as high regard as I and many others do mate.

Patronising much....

You carry on playing the role of a self appointed guardian of an Internet forum mate, and as such deciding what comments somehow 'embarrass' this entity.

 

[Boss_Blue]

Patronising much....

You carry on playing the role of a self appointed guardian of an Internet forum mate, and as such deciding what comments somehow 'embarrass' this entity.

I appreciate your endorsement and shall place it on my shelf alongside the 'Thanks You've Proved My Point' winners trophy and 'Protector of the Realm' certificate.

 

[Zatara]

Another long hypothetical excuse for Martinez Zat?

Again you try to lay the blame on the quality of the players.

"Barry and McCarthy where one player is needed"

That's a tactic. He wants to play 2 DMs. Also just because he didn't spend a lot on Besic and Barry doesn't make them not "signings of note"

It's not all about transfer fees and wage bills

You go all around the world to get to what you want to say

"perhaps hes brilliant with players who can all fit into his system and style...

Id just like to see him given the chance now to finish his rebuilding."

So in short maybe if we give Martinez more time he might be able to turn it around despite the fact there is no actual evidence to support this

We dont know if he wants to play 2 DMs....we dont know what players fit his strategy....and we dont know if it will work.

Maybe and might work,yes...so id like to see him have the opportunity.

 

[Rapidvienna]

We dont know if he wants to play 2 DMs....we dont know what players fit his strategy....and we dont know if it will work.

Maybe and might work,yes...so id like to see him have the opportunity.

And almost 3 full seasons isn't opportunity enough for him???

 

[Zatara]

There is a fair chance I am repeating my view but still, I have to say this.

I am amazed you said 9th is what you are expecting. Wow 9th? No wonder we are the plicky small time Everton. How can the expectation gone downhill like the winnng rate of Martinez? I hate to mention Moyes again. You see he had made us an estrablished top 6 PL club with literally no resources right before he left for Man Utd. And now you expect 9th.

The style of play has indeed changed. Notably, the defence becomes poo while the fitness level of the team has gone backwards as they have shown on the pitch. League results have backed the case and the team can barely beat oppositions at home for over a year. It doen't work. Whether it is the tactcis or the repetitive game plan. Add to the fact that he decided to buy Barry and McCarthy it's his own decision to play those two how on earth you said he did not have time to purchase players who suit his style of play? In average he has a net spend of over £15m per season so you shall never assert that he is skint and barely have money to strength the squad. 3 full seasons and he does not figure out the type of players he needs? Ridiculous if this is the case.

Rebuilding process is not an excuse, not at all. Would you give time to Walter Smith and Mike Walker to rebuild? Face the reality and facts please. Ask yourselve the question. A winning rate of 30% do you think it is acceptable? 21 wins out of 68 matches since August 2014. How can you defend this dreadful league records? Two seasons of crap is long enough, and a consistant one to showcase what the manager's general ability is. Yes Martinez can win the FA Cup with 2 games to go but what makes you think he has the ability to turn things around in the league in long terms? He lets the fans down big time two seasons in a row. That is 76 matches come May. A long time.

I hope Mr. Moshiri will look for a new manager with proven records and reputation to lead this great footbal club not someone who is untested at this level. In modern football you need results. A winning rate of 30% over the course of two seasons is apparently Bobby's record. He deserves the sack based on this horrendous record alone, and rightly so at the end of season.

Most fans are pragmatic and deem 3 full seasons are enough to judge. I am pretty sure last summer people would say give him this season to get 6th. Some people just move the goal post as they wish.

What if he wins the FA Cup? Of course great but will you bet he might eventually come good next season? Results do not backup the case. League form wise the very least.

I said 8th or 9th for this season. I thought that was a reasonable estimate based upon:

Tim Howard in goal
One striker of note
2 out of 3 CBs developing/adapting
No left midfield
Central midfield being weak

Additonally just looking at the wage bills of other clubs as a barometer.

Then also looking at:
Chelsea
Man Utd
Spurs
Arsenal
Liverpool
Man City

So i expected us to finish behind them and possibly others while rebuilding.

On the Moyes topic he was successful at finishing above expectations through his % winning football as he called it. Fair play to him.

We went for martinez to rebuild the club to play a different type of attacking football over a number of years from the ground up.

Youre saying he has spent £15mil a year...so effectively we can look at this in a few ways:

1-- £28mil on Lukaku which alone wipes the spend
2 -- Hes bought young players+short term fixes
3-- Other teams have spent far more
4--£15mil is like 1 decent player a season now

I dont think his transfer record can be argued with.


To be honest anything above 8th or 9th would be overachieving....are we underachieving in 12th? Well yes we are but the season isnt over yet.

 

[bluewally]

We dont know if he wants to play 2 DMs....we dont know what players fit his strategy....and we dont know if it will work.

Maybe and might work,yes...so id like to see him have the opportunity.

He's had 3 years of opportunity during which I doubt you could find many matches where he hasn't played 2 DMs

 

[Bobs]

We dont know if he wants to play 2 DMs....we dont know what players fit his strategy....and we dont know if it will work.

Maybe and might work,yes...so id like to see him have the opportunity.

So let's be clear you think that for three seasons he's been playing a system that he doesn't want to play? Not sure that's exactly a point in his favour! However it is interesting to make the comparison with Spurs for example who while they may not be comparable in every way they do play a similar system to ours with two defensive midfielders. Now as Bobby has explained it takes 50 years of experience and a zimmerframe to be able to play in that position. Nonetheless Pochettino has taken a 21 year old centre back and turned him into one of the best in that position in the space of a year. I'm not criticising Barry by the way because I think hes one of our best players and to be honest I think McCarthy works his socks off too. But this just highlights the difference between the two teams. When Spurs defend they defend with eleven players they work hard for each other. We have two midfielders working hard and the rest of the team throwing shapes and letting players drift past them. That's not good enough at the top level. Bobby is great at giving out pats on the back but not so good at enforcing discipline and hard work. Pochettino wouldn't stand for the lack of workrate and indiscipline that we see week in week out and that's what separates us from them not the system we play.