Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

Martinez in or out?

  • In

  • Out

  • Getting splinters eating cheese on toast on the fence

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ilikecheese said:
I think the crux of his stance is that he feels that Martinez is being judged differently than any manager before him in terms of expectations.

Which he is to be fair. That said, we have a much stronger squad capable of much more. Sure we still have a chance at the Cup and end our trophy drought, but for me even if we win the Cup it's time to part ways.

I see nothing good with him being given more time. Getting a new manager in ASAP in the summer is crucial for us entering next season.
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One thing I also left off of the crux of his stance @The Esk, is the speed at which some fans turned on Martinez. Which to be fair I agree with.

That said, I do believe the evidence for out is clear now, as I said, even with a Cup win.

People disagree with me when I refer to him as a polarizing figure. But for me he was a polarizing hire...mostly because he was coming off relegation. His first season proved to be better than anything I think we could have expected. Then last year happened. In hindsight I think he was well over his head managing the league and Europe...it was an experience he just wasn't ready for. The speed at which folks turned on him last year also supports the polarizing nature of the manager. His undying positivity also tends to polarize the fans on how they view him. Some like the positivity, others want the manager to admit mistakes etc. Now without Europe we've only slightly improved on last year, and made a couple of deep cup runs.

Anyway...that's just my thoughts.
 

ilikecheese said:
One thing I also left off of the crux of his stance @The Esk, is the speed at which some fans turned on Martinez. Which to be fair I agree with.

That said, I do believe the evidence for out is clear now, as I said, even with a Cup win.

People disagree with me when I refer to him as a polarizing figure. But for me he was a polarizing hire...mostly because he was coming off relegation. His first season proved to be better than anything I think we could have expected. Then last year happened. In hindsight I think he was well over his head managing the league and Europe...it was an experience he just wasn't ready for. The speed at which folks turned on him last year also supports the polarizing nature of the manager. His undying positivity also tends to polarize the fans on how they view him. Some like the positivity, others want the manager to admit mistakes etc. Now without Europe we've only slightly improved on last year, and made a couple of deep cup runs.

Anyway...that's just my thoughts.
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Mate, I challenge the 'he's polarising' stance. Evertonians are a not unintelligent fanbase. In fact, I consider Evertonians amongst the 'smartest people in the room'.
The source of discord herein this forum is due to exasperation with what I consider deliberately obtuse support of an obviously totally under-equipped Everton manager.

Martinez doesn't polarise. Such lends him credibility he does not deserve ('72 points and Wemberlee!!! notwithstanding)

...he's simply out of his depth. And were he wading in 2 feet of water, he'd still be out of his depth.
 
nsno-chris said:
This is it, we are quite an easy bunch of fans to please. Show fight and we'll get behind you, it's why the massive beaut of an argie was loved, god awful footy player but ran himself into the ground

We have a team that doesn't look interested in fighting for the shirt
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Get straq in for Roberto!
 
davek said:
Just done a search of all things Everton and Martinez: fair to say that no ones arsed apart from an illiterate Echo hack.

Maybe that's because we're midtable and have just been beaten in a meaningless game by the odd goal away to United.

Nothing to see here. No sackings in sight. We go again at Watford next week and tick another league game off until the semi final.
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Football must be an absolute horribly boring experience for you the past 30 od years if that's how you see the league.
 

deipnosophist said:
Mate, I challenge the 'he's polarising' stance. Evertonians are a not unintelligent fanbase. In fact, I consider Evertonians amongst the 'smartest people in the room'.
The source of discord herein this forum is due to exasperation with what I consider deliberately obtuse support of an obviously totally under-equipped Everton manager.

Martinez doesn't polarise. Such lends him credibility he does not deserve ('72 points and Wemberlee!!! notwithstanding)

...he's simply out of his depth. And were he wading in 2 feet of water, he'd still be out of his depth.
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My polarizing view of Martinez is in no way an indictment of the fans intelligence.

I just think there is evidence of it. The first post in this thread is a perfect example of it. There were many doubts before he was even seen managing the team...for me that was down to Wigan's relegation. Our first three games under him the moans and groans already started. His style of play was a drastic change, and people tired of it quickly when it wasn't working.

He was able to get full backing when we were flying. Although there were some that still rumbled that he was doing it with smoke and mirrors. And continued frustration when we were struggling to scores goals at times even in that first season.

Then yeah...the rest of it. For me the speed at which folks turned on him...probably Hull last year, also supports my view of him as a polarizing figure.

Let me reiterate I am not at all questioning our fans' intelligence.
 
davek said:
That last line is way OTT. How is a club progressing its squad and progressing to the business end of two cup competitions not making progress? Progress in the league would have meant a second season whereby we surpassed 72 points and gained 4th spot. So it was always a tough ask to progress on that first season. Are the league results disappointing? Yes. He needs to improve this by bringing in a leader for that defence and a new GK.

You know what? It's actually your position that's the one lacking in balance, the very accusation you throw at me. That's because you can't or won't recognise the decent things achieved here during this season in all competitions and in the mans overall time here.

But I'm easily boxed off as a "contrarian". Sorry, but I won't be brow beaten by anyone and told that it's all black and white. Because that's basically your position - that it's all bleak. It isn't, it's much more complex than that (and deep down you know it) but you seem to have chosen to lump in your lot with the hang em and flog em brigade on here.

Sad to see the deterioration in your posting on here over the last few months or so. And I say that genuinely.
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Progress may of been attaining some semblance of decent league form (not necessarily a CL spot), whilst winning a cup, otherwise he's no better than Moyes. Getting to a semifinal counting as an achievement belongs in a computer game. Once again I'll pose the question that no pro-Martinez blue ever answers; What is more difficult to succeed in, and requires a varied approach tactically? A league, or a knock-out competition? Martinez has only shown ability in one, bar a single season challenging for a european place.
It may well be other teams have vastly improved, but likewise the sky 4 have bombed spectacularly. We have become a very, very, easy team to nullify and beat.
I believe you can't or won't recognise the many poor things Martinez has brought to Everton's approach, that go far beyond just a CB and a goalie. I won't suggest that 'deep down you know it', as that implies you're fooling yourself, and you most certainly aren't a fool; or that there's something spiritual about Martinez being manager that cannot just be explained away in 2 seasons of poor league position, or two good wins against top opponents (1st leg Man city/Chelsea) in the cups this year.

Many people have assessed the man's time over 3 seasons and found him wanting. It's no knee-jerk, it's been a wave crest that has built up over the last two seasons, which will likely sink the good ship Sin Meido should we flounder in the FA cup, or partially break if we win it. I can't answer for everyone of course, but I'd love us the win the FA cup and steam into the next season with astute signings, and challenge for a CL spot.

Ultimately these are words on a forum, somewhere to vent frustration re: the team we love- sometimes your frustrations with Everton supporters spills into insinuating that they are incapable of independent thought. That doesn't mean that they should insult your ability to have your own views.
 

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