Roberto Martinez Discussion - Including Live Poll (Poll Reset 1st May)

hktoffee · April 2, 2016

davek said:
I cant believe that reading up the board some seem gutted we didn't drop a place in the table today.

Really? Is this what it's come to?

To be fair dave I thought you don't care much on league position.

davek · April 2, 2016

hktoffee said:
To be fair dave I thought you don't care much on league position.

Winning cups is my priority. I'm not fixated on getting the pat on the head for a 7th place finish others obviously are. It means next to nothing.

hktoffee · April 2, 2016

davek said:
Winning cups is my priority. I'm not fixated on getting the pat on the head for a 7th place finish others obviously are. It means next to nothing.

Of course cup is great but as I said there is no contridiction on doing well in both league and cup. Winning a cup is not an excuse for doing rubbish in league for two seasons though.

GwladysBlue · April 2, 2016

davek said:
Winning cups is my priority. I'm not fixated on getting the pat on the head for a 7th place finish others obviously are. It means next to nothing.

Then why do you always go on about that magical season we finished 5th under Martinez?

As I recall we didn't get the '72 Points Trophy'.

Give in Dave, it's getting hard to watch on now. You don't even believe in the stuff you're saying, you're just in a hole you feel you can't get out of.

TheHumbleEgg · April 2, 2016

whiteshadow said:
It's exactly the same thing.

Who cares where we are now if we finish in an acceptable position?

Same thing in a marathon, who cares where you are 20 miles in if you win the race?

...a million miles from being the same thing.

As an M-runner you're responsible for your own action, you dictate your own pace, you are the only one accountable for your performance.

Whereas footballers, allegedly embracing a team ethic, more often than not are playing to the instruction of their manager....which determines your finishing position as a side, ultimately.

Cork Evertonian · April 2, 2016

hktoffee said:
Of course cup is great but as I said there is no contridiction on doing well in both league and cup. Winning a cup is not an excuse for doing rubbish in league for two seasons though.

I have to admire the most extreme of the pro Martinez crew.This bullish we don't give a flying monkeys about the league talk is a red herring to avoid addressing the issue of our last 2 pathetic league campaigns.It's irrelevant what sort of run we go on in the league now because it's already been a failure.We couldn't even rustle up a europa league challenge in a season when the likes of Chelsea both Manchester clubs and Arsenal weren't at the races.I always consider the league form to be the clubs bread and butter.It's not a case of having to pick one over the other.I want to see Everton compete for champions league places and eventually challenge for and win titles.I have no intrest in Everton being a ramshackle bum outfit that's happy enough to finish 12th every season and do well in the cups.

whiteshadow · April 2, 2016

TheHumbleEgg said:
...a million miles from being the same thing.

As an M-runner you're responsible for your own action, you dictate your own pace, you are the only one accountable for your performance.

Whereas footballers, allegedly embracing a team ethic, more often than not are playing to the instruction of their manager....which determines your finishing position as a side, ultimately.

Sorry to disagree but the best time to judge the race, particularly a long campaign like the Premiership, is during it."

That is what the whole analogy stems from. All my points has related to is where we finish is more important than where we are now in the league.

The whole point of the competition is where you finish after 38 games. Not where you are after 29 when other teams have games in hand.

I think you're missing why I used it in the first place. I'm not saying a running a marathon is the same as a football team. I'm saying the best time to judge a performance in the league or in a marathon is when it's over and you know where you've finished.

griffla · April 2, 2016

TheHumbleEgg said:
...a million miles from being the same thing.
As an M-runner you're responsible for your own action, you dictate your own pace, you are the only one accountable for your performance.

Well done, you've ran marathons, we get it. But to be honest your analogy doesn't work when relating it to EFCs season.
Genuinely surprised at how nit-picky the anti-mob have got in this thread.

mmmmsnouts · April 2, 2016

Interesting the three biggest clubs outside the so-called "top seven" look like they're all going to make the drop together.

Just in case you were hanging onto some kind of "Everton's too big to go down" argument vis a vis Martinez. If things get screwed up enough - yes they absolutely can.

TheHumbleEgg · April 2, 2016

griffla said:
Well done, you've ran marathons, we get it. But to be honest your analogy doesn't work when relating it to EFCs season.
Genuinely surprised at how nit-picky the anti-mob have got in this thread.

...what are you talking about, and why so oddly patronising? Pop your HRT patch back on, all will be well again...

Thanks for the congrats though, despite never running one, it just seems a tad obvious that one can't really compare the two, no?

You're surprised at the 'nit-pickiness'? Really...tell you what surprises me mate, is how many posters seem utterly desperate to become the CAGNEY to Dave K's LACEY, I get it, he's a hero, sound...

...but the peculiar onanism over the MANAGER is a tad unnerving at times, support him by all means, great, well done...but some are painting him as blameless in relation to our current position. Again, sound...how does that work? Put simply, he isn't...he's hugely responsible.

And if you can't see that then yis need to wipe the jazz off yer goggles...

moyes cardy · April 2, 2016

Cork Evertonian said:
I have to admire the most extreme of the pro Martinez crew.This bullish we don't give a flying monkeys about the league talk is a red herring to avoid addressing the issue of our last 2 pathetic league campaigns.It's irrelevant what sort of run we go on in the league now because it's already been a failure.We couldn't even rustle up a europa league challenge in a season when the likes of Chelsea both Manchester clubs and Arsenal weren't at the races.I always consider the league form to be the clubs bread and butter.It's not a case of having to pick one over the other.I want to see Everton compete for champions league places and eventually challenge for and win titles.I have no intrest in Everton being a ramshackle bum outfit that's happy enough to finish 12th every season and do well in the cups.

Your quickly dismissing the importance of winning a trophy to a club that's hasn't won one for 21 years - don't move the goal posts from a previous 7th place trophy to a reality of actually doing something that matters.

Cork Evertonian · April 2, 2016

moyes cardy said:
Your quickly dismissing the importance of winning a trophy to a club that's hasn't won one for 21 years - don't move the goal posts from a previous 7th place trophy to a reality of actually doing something that matters.

The pro Martinez crew forcing people at gun point to choose between the league and cup again.lol It's not a case of picking one over the other.An FA cup win would be great but as i said being happy enough with finishing 12th every year with winning the FA Cup and League cup being the limit of our ambitions does not intrest me.Im only intrested in Everton getting back on the road towards joining the elite of football again and by that i mean regular champions league football and winning titles.And 12th place in April yet again is a long way from that.Nil Satis Nisi Optimum and all that.

Jreverton1 · April 2, 2016

moyes cardy said:
A quick question if we finish 7th and win the cup do you want him out??

Yes

moyes cardy · April 2, 2016

Cork Evertonian said:
The pro Martinez crew forcing people at gun point to choose between the league and cup again.lol It's not a case of picking one over the other.An FA cup win would be great but as i said being happy enough with finishing 12th every year with winning the FA Cup and League cupbeing the limit of our ambitions does not intrest me.Im only intrested in Everton getting back on the road towards joining the elite of football again by that i mean regular champions league football and winning titles.And 12tth place is a long way from that.Nil Satis Nisi Optimum and all that.

It's not about choice but reality - answer this 5th place or for this year a more realistic top half but we actually win something which is why we exist. Of course we have to do better but don't dismiss what winning a cup means or as our most successful ever manager quoted the most important trophy was the first.

hktoffee · April 2, 2016

moyes cardy said:
Your quickly dismissing the importance of winning a trophy to a club that's hasn't won one for 21 years - don't move the goal posts from a previous 7th place trophy to a reality of actually doing something that matters.

Well you just cannot hide our pathetic league form scrutiny.

Money wised and euro qualification means the league is always the bread and butter.