Roberto Martinez discussion

[Carlito]

Now that the old gunslingers have rode back into town, I've been persuaded to change my mind.

Martinez is no different than poor old David Price, who'd probably be a world champion by now if all those knobheads would stop knocking him out all the time. He sets out to win and throws some lovely jabs when his opponents play fair and stand completely stationary, so who are we to say he should go back to headlining Ex-Cons vs The Screws cards in Envi?

Stick to watching fights on the telly with your ma's spit bucket on your lap and playing Mike Tyson's Punch-Out, you absolute fast food industry workers of tomorrow.

 

[tommye]

AJC5, meet @Kev The Rat

You two were made for each other. 'Koff you complete ingrate. Everyone here knows that @chicoazul's previews are the best thing on here (aside from @davek of course).

 

[hullefc]

https://www.evertonarentwe.com/2016/03/09/roberto-martinez/

Good effort that.



Roberto Martinez - Everton Aren't We?

First off, cards on the table. I’m a fan.

I’ve been going to Goodison as a season ticket holder since 1988. In that time I’ve seen a succession of different managers. Colin Harvey never being as good a no 1 as he was a no 2. Howard coming back and never quite being able to recapture his magical first spell. Mike Walker being completely out if his depth. Joe Royle ending an 8 year trophy drought (ahem) with a team that was (the magical Kanchelskis aside), better than the sum of its parts. Kendall part 3 and managing to keep a team up that had no right to do so. The blessed Walter and 4 years of purgatory. Finally, David Moyes and his team – big on effort – small on bravery and belief. They were all either afraid to try and win, weren’t given the tools to win or just plain and simple weren’t up to the job.

That brings us to Roberto and his squad that is allegedly the best squad in all that time above.

Well, if it is, and I do think it goes toe to toe with the best of Moyes or Royle, (realistically the only 2 that would compare) why would you want to get rid of the man who has cultivated that squad?

Is it the frustration that we know how good these players can be but just aren’t showing it consistently? Is it the frustration of an appalling home record against a brilliant away record with only 1 defeat all season. Is it a style of football that at its best is as good as we’ve seen since the 80’s but at its worst is slow,turgid and predictable?

Or is it because we are just never happy?

Make no mistake, this Everton team is good. Time will tell if it can go on to became very good or even great.

We are a top goalkeeper away from having an outstanding spine to a team. In John Stones we have the best ball playing centre back I have seen at the club. In Ross Barkley we have the 2nd most exciting talent to come out of the academy in 30 years and in Romelu Lukaku we have the most prolific striker we have had since Graeme Sharp.

All 3 are under 23 And contracted to Everton for at least another 2 seasons after this one ends. 3 in Lukakus case. As such, if they are leaving, they are leaving for top dollar.

So why on earth are we not performing at home?

The away form is not an issue. Yes we’ve dropped points away but the sickening injury time equalisers at Chelsea and Bournemouth are the exception rather than the rule (away) especially when you consider the John Terry goal was offside. Not sure how you “close out” a game decided by a linesman not doing his job.

So lets go against the grain here and start with some positives.

In his first season, Roberto got us a record points haul in the premier league. That’s the reality. He also obtained a club record in the premier league era of 7 straight wins. The myth that this success was built on David Moyes hard work is nonsense. If you are expecting me to believe that the Martinez team of 13/14 was performing the way it was due to Moyes then why on earth was Moyes team of 12/13 not doing it? As the saying goes, the table doesn’t lie.

We are also currently on an unbeaten run of 8 league games away from home. Another premier league best for us. Whoopy doo, you may say but when you consider that no team in Europe’s top 5 leagues have lost less than us away from home this season that’s quite impressive and someone somewhere is doing something right.

Moving onto the League cup. No Everton team has been further than Roberto Martinez’s team since 1984. Consider the fact that we went out to a Man City team who had a substitute who turned the game who cost £55m when our starting XI cost £58m. Also consider the fact that we went out to a deflected goal and a goal that should not have been given. If all those twitter UEFA pro license holders could enlighten me how you “manage” that scenario, I’m all ears.

Moving onto Europe. If you are against Roberto, you might not like the fact that no Everton team has been further in a Europa League campaign than his Everton team. Ever. That’s a fact.

Now lets look at the players.

John stones – What David Moyes was doing buying a ball playing centre back I will never know. Not exactly his modus operandi is it? Who has a suspicion that if the ginger fog would have been in charge that John would have gone the same way as Mustafi and Dier etc – e.g. Out without a sniff of the first team? Anyway, supposition aside, what we do know is that Roberto came along and turned him into the most sought after centre back in Europe. One we turned down north of £40m for. One who the Park End neanderthals want to “just [Poor language removed] clear it nobhead”. John doesn’t, he wants to play his way out of trouble in his managers image. And it’s a joy to watch. Sometimes it goes wrong, mostly it doesn’t. Some people will probably only appreciate it if and when he leaves. Whatever happens though, his development is down to Roberto and his style of play and for that we should be thankful. (Perhaps its because I’ve always been a Brazil 82 man rather than a Brazil 94 one).

Ross Barkley. A gem from the academy and one that has been allowed to flourish under an attacking manager. Seems easier said than done but he didn’t set the world alight on loan when he was younger and you could never see Moyes trusting him. Despite the notorious boo boys being on his case last season, he has come through it and is showing us all the player he can be. Without question, one of the 2 best home grown talents we have produced in the last 30 years but one that has been allowed to grow and thrive under a manager that believes in him. Its not as simple as just being very good, you also have to have a manager to back your talent and allow you to make mistakes. See the next example.

Romelu Lukaku. Like it or not, but the big fella made it quite clear he came to Goodison largely because of Roberto Martinez. Astonishingly some people still aren’t convinced by him. Apart from Rooney, he’s the best out and out striker I’ve seen at the club. Better than Sharp. Again, Roberto got him in when few thought that was possible when his initial loan was announced, got him scoring and has turned him into, Aguéro aside, the best striker in the league. You may think that’s easily done but as we all know Moyes had a great habit of not getting the best out of his strikers and Josè thought it was best to get rid with not much argument from Abramovich. Another young player Roberto trusted and tha

So that’s the good bits and I’m not naïve enough to think Roberto hasn’t made mistakes. His biggest one for me is his blind faith in Tim Howard and one that was rectified way too late to save our league campaign. For me Robles is not the answer either but it was ridiculous keeping Tim in goal when he was costing us game after game. Perhaps Roberto though he was going to make a lazarus like come back ala our player of the year, Gareth Barry. He didn’t and the team has paid a heavy price for that loyalty/stupidity.

The other weakness seems to be his reluctance to change our style of play. We set up exactly the same away as we do at home. It works away from Goodison with the onus generally being on the home side to attack. At home though, the onus is on us and teams are quite happy to hit us on the break after watching us play around their box for 30 passes. He is paid handsomely to address the appalling home record and if he doesn’t I doubt our favourite Iranian will hesitate in pressing the button.

Make no mistake though the Goodison crowd do not help our home form. 20 minutes in, if it is a game we are expected to win and we are not up you can feel the tension growing and that spreads to the pitch. What infuriates me is that such a demanding home crowd are quite happy to get on the players back but cheer Bill Kenwright’s grid when it appears on the big screen.

So, to sum all this up. We’ve got an attacking manager who is trying to play attractive football with a talented young squad who are only going to get better. Mistakes have been made and hopefully he and they will learn from them. I just hope Evertonians do as well because not long before our last great young team was about to dominate, some divvies were asking for the removal of our greatest ever manager with some ill timed graffiti.

Well said, so eloquently put. We have only conceded 13 away goals in 13 games, only 10 teams in the 5 top European divisions can better that and been beaten once.

Maybe Martinez was addressing our home set up and that was why he played 3 at the back on Saturday - change to our set up and to counter Carroll coming on sometime during the game. We will never know whether it would have worked because he changed it due to Mirallas getting himself sent off. Maybe a mistake in changing to a back 4.

"So, to sum all this up. We’ve got an attacking manager who is trying to play attractive football with a talented young squad who are only going to get better. Mistakes have been made and hopefully he and they will learn from them. I just hope Evertonians do as well because not long before our last great young team was about to dominate, some divvies were asking for the removal of our greatest ever manager with some ill timed graffiti".

 

[Kurt.]

How many points would would have without his goals and assists?

Stupid question really as somebody else would have filled his position.. not like we would play with 10 men is it ??

 

[chicoazul]

Now that the old gunslingers have rode back into town, I've been persuaded to change my mind.

Martinez is no different than poor old David Price, who'd probably be a world champion by now if all those knobheads would stop knocking him out all the time. He sets out to win and throws some lovely jabs when his opponents play fair and stand completely stationary, so who are we to say he should go back to headlining Ex-Cons vs The Screws cards in Envi?

Stick to watching fights on the telly with your ma's spit bucket on your lap and playing Mike Tyson's Punch-Out, you absolute fast food industry workers of tomorrow.

This is how you play the game of GOT and win hoppers. Always swing onto the winning side and be most fierce at all times.

Well in little Carl.

 

[LAToffee]

[/QUOTE
Who else is going to do them week in and week out especially when we're utter crud like we seem to be a lot currently?

 

[tommye]

Now that the old gunslingers have rode back into town, I've been persuaded to change my mind.

Martinez is no different than poor old David Price, who'd probably be a world champion by now if all those knobheads would stop knocking him out all the time. He sets out to win and throws some lovely jabs when his opponents play fair and stand completely stationary, so who are we to say he should go back to headlining Ex-Cons vs The Screws cards in Envi?

Stick to watching fights on the telly with your ma's spit bucket on your lap and playing Mike Tyson's Punch-Out, you absolute fast food industry workers of tomorrow.

 

[The Esk]

GIFS in the Everton Forum?

 

[JAYTALITY]

Cultists, check the poll, the results are in.

 

[chicoazul]

GIFS in the Everton Forum?

Abort. Abort.

 

[Prevenger17]

Cultists, check the poll, the results are in.

I think a recount after our next win would raise a few questions about their validity

 

[Prevenger17]

GIFS in the Everton Forum?

All from one source too..

 

[Kurt.]

GIFS in the Everton Forum?

Not one to play the ref like,,, but i'd ban him rar off

 

[JAYTALITY]

 

[degsy]

https://www.evertonarentwe.com/2016/03/09/roberto-martinez/

Good effort that.



Roberto Martinez - Everton Aren't We?

First off, cards on the table. I’m a fan.

I’ve been going to Goodison as a season ticket holder since 1988. In that time I’ve seen a succession of different managers. Colin Harvey never being as good a no 1 as he was a no 2. Howard coming back and never quite being able to recapture his magical first spell. Mike Walker being completely out if his depth. Joe Royle ending an 8 year trophy drought (ahem) with a team that was (the magical Kanchelskis aside), better than the sum of its parts. Kendall part 3 and managing to keep a team up that had no right to do so. The blessed Walter and 4 years of purgatory. Finally, David Moyes and his team – big on effort – small on bravery and belief. They were all either afraid to try and win, weren’t given the tools to win or just plain and simple weren’t up to the job.

That brings us to Roberto and his squad that is allegedly the best squad in all that time above.

Well, if it is, and I do think it goes toe to toe with the best of Moyes or Royle, (realistically the only 2 that would compare) why would you want to get rid of the man who has cultivated that squad?

Is it the frustration that we know how good these players can be but just aren’t showing it consistently? Is it the frustration of an appalling home record against a brilliant away record with only 1 defeat all season. Is it a style of football that at its best is as good as we’ve seen since the 80’s but at its worst is slow,turgid and predictable?

Or is it because we are just never happy?

Make no mistake, this Everton team is good. Time will tell if it can go on to became very good or even great.

We are a top goalkeeper away from having an outstanding spine to a team. In John Stones we have the best ball playing centre back I have seen at the club. In Ross Barkley we have the 2nd most exciting talent to come out of the academy in 30 years and in Romelu Lukaku we have the most prolific striker we have had since Graeme Sharp.

All 3 are under 23 And contracted to Everton for at least another 2 seasons after this one ends. 3 in Lukakus case. As such, if they are leaving, they are leaving for top dollar.

So why on earth are we not performing at home?

The away form is not an issue. Yes we’ve dropped points away but the sickening injury time equalisers at Chelsea and Bournemouth are the exception rather than the rule (away) especially when you consider the John Terry goal was offside. Not sure how you “close out” a game decided by a linesman not doing his job.

So lets go against the grain here and start with some positives.

In his first season, Roberto got us a record points haul in the premier league. That’s the reality. He also obtained a club record in the premier league era of 7 straight wins. The myth that this success was built on David Moyes hard work is nonsense. If you are expecting me to believe that the Martinez team of 13/14 was performing the way it was due to Moyes then why on earth was Moyes team of 12/13 not doing it? As the saying goes, the table doesn’t lie.

We are also currently on an unbeaten run of 8 league games away from home. Another premier league best for us. Whoopy doo, you may say but when you consider that no team in Europe’s top 5 leagues have lost less than us away from home this season that’s quite impressive and someone somewhere is doing something right.

Moving onto the League cup. No Everton team has been further than Roberto Martinez’s team since 1984. Consider the fact that we went out to a Man City team who had a substitute who turned the game who cost £55m when our starting XI cost £58m. Also consider the fact that we went out to a deflected goal and a goal that should not have been given. If all those twitter UEFA pro license holders could enlighten me how you “manage” that scenario, I’m all ears.

Moving onto Europe. If you are against Roberto, you might not like the fact that no Everton team has been further in a Europa League campaign than his Everton team. Ever. That’s a fact.

Now lets look at the players.

John stones – What David Moyes was doing buying a ball playing centre back I will never know. Not exactly his modus operandi is it? Who has a suspicion that if the ginger fog would have been in charge that John would have gone the same way as Mustafi and Dier etc – e.g. Out without a sniff of the first team? Anyway, supposition aside, what we do know is that Roberto came along and turned him into the most sought after centre back in Europe. One we turned down north of £40m for. One who the Park End neanderthals want to “just [Poor language removed] clear it nobhead”. John doesn’t, he wants to play his way out of trouble in his managers image. And it’s a joy to watch. Sometimes it goes wrong, mostly it doesn’t. Some people will probably only appreciate it if and when he leaves. Whatever happens though, his development is down to Roberto and his style of play and for that we should be thankful. (Perhaps its because I’ve always been a Brazil 82 man rather than a Brazil 94 one).

Ross Barkley. A gem from the academy and one that has been allowed to flourish under an attacking manager. Seems easier said than done but he didn’t set the world alight on loan when he was younger and you could never see Moyes trusting him. Despite the notorious boo boys being on his case last season, he has come through it and is showing us all the player he can be. Without question, one of the 2 best home grown talents we have produced in the last 30 years but one that has been allowed to grow and thrive under a manager that believes in him. Its not as simple as just being very good, you also have to have a manager to back your talent and allow you to make mistakes. See the next example.

Romelu Lukaku. Like it or not, but the big fella made it quite clear he came to Goodison largely because of Roberto Martinez. Astonishingly some people still aren’t convinced by him. Apart from Rooney, he’s the best out and out striker I’ve seen at the club. Better than Sharp. Again, Roberto got him in when few thought that was possible when his initial loan was announced, got him scoring and has turned him into, Aguéro aside, the best striker in the league. You may think that’s easily done but as we all know Moyes had a great habit of not getting the best out of his strikers and Josè thought it was best to get rid with not much argument from Abramovich. Another young player Roberto trusted and tha

So that’s the good bits and I’m not naïve enough to think Roberto hasn’t made mistakes. His biggest one for me is his blind faith in Tim Howard and one that was rectified way too late to save our league campaign. For me Robles is not the answer either but it was ridiculous keeping Tim in goal when he was costing us game after game. Perhaps Roberto though he was going to make a lazarus like come back ala our player of the year, Gareth Barry. He didn’t and the team has paid a heavy price for that loyalty/stupidity.

The other weakness seems to be his reluctance to change our style of play. We set up exactly the same away as we do at home. It works away from Goodison with the onus generally being on the home side to attack. At home though, the onus is on us and teams are quite happy to hit us on the break after watching us play around their box for 30 passes. He is paid handsomely to address the appalling home record and if he doesn’t I doubt our favourite Iranian will hesitate in pressing the button.

Make no mistake though the Goodison crowd do not help our home form. 20 minutes in, if it is a game we are expected to win and we are not up you can feel the tension growing and that spreads to the pitch. What infuriates me is that such a demanding home crowd are quite happy to get on the players back but cheer Bill Kenwright’s grid when it appears on the big screen.

So, to sum all this up. We’ve got an attacking manager who is trying to play attractive football with a talented young squad who are only going to get better. Mistakes have been made and hopefully he and they will learn from them. I just hope Evertonians do as well because not long before our last great young team was about to dominate, some divvies were asking for the removal of our greatest ever manager with some ill timed graffiti.

Fairplay to you for writing all that and to me for reading it, all very eloquent.

But its not working, in fact it seems to be getting worse, you of course will/might say it may have to get worse before it gets better...it may, but i doubt it.
Either way not our decision just our opinion