Roberto Martinez discussion

[Igrok]

...Mr Martinez is a bullshit merchant, learning the job at our expense. Me?...I'd have fired him weeks ago. I guess some people will take my critique of Mr Martinez as over harsh. But at the risk of coming across as some arrogant wannabe, I actually have 20 years experience of running businesses and employing the right people to facilitate success in those endeavours. Mr Martinez is an apprentice learning his trade at Everton's expense (like Wigan's ultimately). And whilst I have no financial skin in this football lark, emotionally, I am VERY involved with Everton Football Club. It pains me to see a pretender earn 50K a week. Our Board has not the balls to sack the fraud...hopefully a true businessman like Everton's new major shareholder, does possess such...
Please resign Mr Martinez. Were I your chairman, I'd sack you first thing in the morning...

Problem is frauds do not resign...they need to be exposed and sacked...

 

[Deco]

My granda used to tell us that a player shouldn't be on the pitch If he can't score a pen. Harsh for Rom but Ross should be taking them imho

I've seen this said a few times - didn't Ross miss one last season? This is Rom's first penalty miss.

 

[Igrok]

He'd be a very good Director of Football.

He will be a good timeshare vacation salesman....

 

[jceverton]

You seen Mad Uncle Louis at ManU mate?
He's kidnapping kids from Primary School and throwing them on at random, even starting them.

Naisse needs game time to acclimatise and build fitness. Sticking on a more defensive player like Barry would have been a neon sign shouting that we'd decided to sit being pummeled on the edge of our own area for the last 15 with no outlet. You're forgetting we were actually in control at that point and the more likely to score again.

I think you'll find it was Martinez who'd forget we were in control when he made the Lennon/Niasse sub! As I said who else would play 2 up top with 15 minutes to go, 2-0 to the good and with 10 men. No matter how you dress it up it's madness. Then just for good measure the player hasn't got any experience of playing in the league!
There is no way that LVG would have made that sub, they've got the second best defensive record in the league. LVG has also in his younger days won the European cup with a team filled with young players (a lot of them homegrown) something that Martinez isn't remotely capable of.

 

[evertoniano]

Yesterday was a watershed for me personally.

Up until now, I was (for the most part) in favour of giving him time. The attacking football he has us playing at times really is excellent - the best I can remember clearly in my time supporting Everton (I'm 34, so have only hazy recollections of our truly great sides).

He also APPEARED to be learning a lesson that defending is actually an important part of football.

But then yesterday happened. Now it's not very often that you can boil an entire game down to one specific moment, but my god, WHAT was he doing with that Lennon substitution?

You're 2-0 up, and have been comfortable for the majority of the game, but are down to 10 men. Your opposition, anonymous for much of the match and clearly out of sorts compared to what's been an exceptional season from them, are probably wondering if it's ever going to be possible to beat you, after 15 failed attempts. But then they get a big psychological boost. Not only does their tormentor-in-chief miss a penalty, but a moment or two later he misses a 1 on 1, either of which would have killed the game stone dead.

That sort of incident is ALWAYS going to bring a reaction from the trailing team. We've all watched enough football to know that, and god knows Martinez should have.

Now in that moment, he looked at the game and decided to take off one of our most effective players on the day. Now even if we decide that Lennon WAS knackered (though to be completely honest i hadn't seen much evidence of it) and needed replacing... why in the name of god would you bring on Niasse - a striker who (even if we give him the benefit of the doubt and say he'll end up a good player for us) has currently appeared WAY off Premier League pace? Why would you not bring on Barry at that stage, to just sit deep, sure things up, drop between the centre backs where needed etc? Or if Barry really couldn't manage 20mins, then god, even Osman could do that role!

Or failing that, you've got Deulofeu sat there twiddling his thumbs... bring him on, with instructions to emulate what Lennon was doing. He's not the best defensively in the world, but I'm sure he could use his pace to hassle and harry for 20mins.

What you DON'T do is bring on a second, completely untested striker and throw him into a situation like that. It was comfortably the most suicidal substitution i've ever seen, and while yes, we still should have defended all 3 goals much better, the team was visibly screwed by that change.


I had a long conversation with someone yesterday who was defending the substitution saying "Martinez obviously thought it would stretch the play and let us hit on the counter. I laughed, because in that situation, who in their right mind would WANT to stretch the play?! But then I realised he's probably entirely right. Martinez gives the impression that he would prefer to score a 3rd and maybe win that game 3-2 (despite the massively increased risk of something going catastrophically wrong) than just grind it out and take the 2-0 win which (for the majority of that game) we easily deserved.


Personally I think it's time for a change. We've got a phenomenally (sorry) talented team there, and it's being wasted in large part due to a manager who doesn't appreciate that the most important thing about football is winning games. I'm sure he (and many here) couldn't care less, but yesterday was the day Martinez finally lost my confidence. It's going to take a lot to get it back.

Perfectly sums up the way I feel. I'm glad you wrote it, I wouldn't have been able to put it more eloquently, really well written.
Hate to say it, but up until yesterday I was prepared to give him the benefit of the doubt. But that Niasse sub blew it for me. It might have been OK if Niasse had been given orders to shore up the left side and hassle and harry and help defend but he wasn't, he just stayed forward looking to play off Rom. I just couldn't get my head round it.
I really wanted Roberto to work out, he must take a great deal of credit for actually having built this team and I'm grateful for that, but you don't win games if you can't defend when you need to.

 

[maccavennie]

View attachment 18899

lol pmsl

 

[jceverton]

Yesterday was a watershed for me personally.

Up until now, I was (for the most part) in favour of giving him time. The attacking football he has us playing at times really is excellent - the best I can remember clearly in my time supporting Everton (I'm 34, so have only hazy recollections of our truly great sides).

He also APPEARED to be learning a lesson that defending is actually an important part of football.

But then yesterday happened. Now it's not very often that you can boil an entire game down to one specific moment, but my god, WHAT was he doing with that Lennon substitution?

You're 2-0 up, and have been comfortable for the majority of the game, but are down to 10 men. Your opposition, anonymous for much of the match and clearly out of sorts compared to what's been an exceptional season from them, are probably wondering if it's ever going to be possible to beat you, after 15 failed attempts. But then they get a big psychological boost. Not only does their tormentor-in-chief miss a penalty, but a moment or two later he misses a 1 on 1, either of which would have killed the game stone dead.

That sort of incident is ALWAYS going to bring a reaction from the trailing team. We've all watched enough football to know that, and god knows Martinez should have.

Now in that moment, he looked at the game and decided to take off one of our most effective players on the day. Now even if we decide that Lennon WAS knackered (though to be completely honest i hadn't seen much evidence of it) and needed replacing... why in the name of god would you bring on Niasse - a striker who (even if we give him the benefit of the doubt and say he'll end up a good player for us) has currently appeared WAY off Premier League pace? Why would you not bring on Barry at that stage, to just sit deep, sure things up, drop between the centre backs where needed etc? Or if Barry really couldn't manage 20mins, then god, even Osman could do that role!

Or failing that, you've got Deulofeu sat there twiddling his thumbs... bring him on, with instructions to emulate what Lennon was doing. He's not the best defensively in the world, but I'm sure he could use his pace to hassle and harry for 20mins.

What you DON'T do is bring on a second, completely untested striker and throw him into a situation like that. It was comfortably the most suicidal substitution i've ever seen, and while yes, we still should have defended all 3 goals much better, the team was visibly screwed by that change.


I had a long conversation with someone yesterday who was defending the substitution saying "Martinez obviously thought it would stretch the play and let us hit on the counter. I laughed, because in that situation, who in their right mind would WANT to stretch the play?! But then I realised he's probably entirely right. Martinez gives the impression that he would prefer to score a 3rd and maybe win that game 3-2 (despite the massively increased risk of something going catastrophically wrong) than just grind it out and take the 2-0 win which (for the majority of that game) we easily deserved.


Personally I think it's time for a change. We've got a phenomenally (sorry) talented team there, and it's being wasted in large part due to a manager who doesn't appreciate that the most important thing about football is winning games. I'm sure he (and many here) couldn't care less, but yesterday was the day Martinez finally lost my confidence. It's going to take a lot to get it back.

You missed out Baines, he could have brought him on for Lennon to tighten up the left hand side! So pretty much the whole subs bench rather than Niasse.

 

[zirc]

To be fair if it was 11 vs 11, then I would see why everyone was being so critical. But Everton managed to be winning until the 80th minute with 10 men... a very hard task against a team aiming to get into the Champions League.

Even before the match, people were saying we would draw or lose - so with 10 men, why is it such a shock?

If Lukaku scores the penalty we win. If we don't get the penalty, we probably don't go and lose. Him missing that hits everyone's confidence and gives WHU a great self-belief against a team who have been playing with 10 due to a reckless decision by Kevin (who should be sold asap).

I'm deflated as everyone with our home form and honestly, would like somebody else in as manager. But yesterday wasn't really Bobby's fault, we did magnificent to be 2-0 up for so long. Sometimes people just complain for complaining sake.

It's not the fact that we lost playing 10 v 11 from the 35th minute, it's the manner of defeat. Which seems to be repeatedly far too often.

 

[JJK]

The final straw for me was after the semi final. He's gotten worse since then. He's clueless and has wasted this very talented team. Even if, and it's a massive if, he wins us the fa cup, I'd still want him binned off. He's a very stubborn man who will stick to his flawed footballing philosophy even if the entire world was telling him it doesn't work. We're lucky we've had Lukaku banging them in this season because without those goals we'd be rubbing shoulders with villa, make no mistake about it.

 

[nsno-chris]

4 homes wins all season, jesus it gets more depressing every time you look at that stat

Newcastle, villa, Sunderland and Chelsea are the only 3 teams in the land who have not come away with anything from goodison.

Wow, 3 relegation candidates and a poor Chelsea side at that time

 

[beautifulthing]

You can take one or another aspect of individual games. R M's problem is the pattern that's been established over, effectively, two seasons. That pattern includes self destruction and witless tactics with a staggering series of individual errors mixed with lack of mental strength as a team.

 

[Saint Domingo]

Why is there talk of Rom or Lennon being 'knackered'? They'd only played 70 mins. Amongst other things our fitness, concentration, and ability to play at a good level for 95 mins have been very poor. Some games it's 50 mins of great football then the whole team goes off a cliff. We've not got the basic platform in place that allows us to get consistent results: fitness, consistency of selection (only just starting to happen now), defensive solidity, rehearsed set pieces. Any decent premier league side had these things then builds an attacking game on top of it. We seem to send out 11 exceptional players but with absolutely no instruction, so when things go wrong they are all over the show. Tata Martino showed that you can't do that even with players of the class of Barcelona, they need a disciplined core way of playing then you can embellish from there. We are all icing no cake, someone even touches it with a knife and the whole thing falls down.

 

[daz4matty]

The final straw for me was after the semi final. He's gotten worse since then. He's clueless and has wasted this very talented team. Even if, and it's a massive if, he wins us the fa cup, I'd still want him binned off. He's a very stubborn man who will stick to his flawed footballing philosophy even if the entire world was telling him it doesn't work. We're lucky we've had Lukaku banging them in this season because without those goals we'd be rubbing shoulders with villa, make no mistake about it.

Your not on your own i bet 80% or more of fans want him out,just look at the other forums.
Luckily we have a new owner who will act on it

 

[maccavennie]

You can take one or another aspect of individual games. R M's problem is the pattern that's been established over, effectively, two seasons. That pattern includes self destruction and witless tactics with a staggering series of individual errors mixed with lack of mental strength as a team.

That really is like someone explaining what Wigan used to be like isn't it. We've got far better players but the same issues persist and that all points straight to the manager, it's just who he is isn't it and he can't change.

 

[deipnosophist]

Problem is frauds do not resign...they need to be exposed and sacked...

yes, although when outed, some fall on their sword. I sit here in NZ, midnight on a Sunday night absolutely confounded as to how Mr Roberto Martinez tactically conspired to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. His previous in such affairs is of such egregious nature as to be unforgivable