Roberto Martinez discussion

[Saint Domingo]

But you told me not to mention our young squad, or bad luck with the refs etc...

They are some of the reasons.

Other reasons include Howard. Howard who was picked by Martinez, which is stupid from him and i've said that many times. However, even then, people are claiming that all of that is down to Martinez and somehow claiming Howard is in no way to blame for his own form, which is mental.

Prior to Christmas we had a run from Bournemouth onwards (with McCarthy out, I may add, which never helps) where we dominated some games and couldn't get over the line, before we got beat by Leicester after two stupid decisions from players to go down and gift them two penalties. Again, it's not Martinez who tells Mori to dive in on Okazaki or Howard on Vardy...

Appeared to turn a corner at Newcastle but the Stoke game put us back again.

Since then, in the league, we've looked to be more solid while still trying to retain our attacking edge.

It's getting the balance right and in the last few games we have done - even vs WBA.

The main thing is also Lukaku. We need a way of allowing him to become less isolated while at the same time keeping solid in defence.

Everything you have written there lands at the door of the manager. Player form? Yes. Isolated striker? Managers tactics. Domination without points? Managers tactics. Low confidence? Upto the manager. Injuries? Happen to all managers, others have adapted.

He can't control everything agreed but there seems to be 'if it hadn't of been for......' every single game. When it happens over a long period of time, it's no longer just in game personal errors. Bad finishing, errors in defence, they become structural errors which lie with the manager.

 

[bcblue1878]

How he spends the Lukaku money will make or break him in the summer

And the Stones money!!

 

[Woolly Blue]

That's all down to sheer frustration.

Some people are letting their emotions get the better of them and lashing out at other posters instead of trading in calm overview of where we are as a football club. They run away from that approach and prefer personal attack because the facts are acting like a giant rock upon which their rants and fume crash and fall.

The salient facts:

RM is our manager
RM will remain our manager
The team are 100% behind him
The team are playing the best attacking football for generations
The squad is getting stronger and stronger
We are not in any danger whatsoever and can climb into the top half at any point
We've put a very good cup run together already and can do the same in the other domestic cup we're in
Most Evertonians are happy to see RM remain they just want defensive solidity to go with it
The board have absolutely no intentions of changing manager


There's no way around the above. It just IS that way. The sooner the restless accept it and move on, rather than causing periodic (and laughable) crises out of every draw or defeat, then the better it'll be for them.

When he leaves the club ( by mutual consent of course ) the vaults will be swung wide open and the posts of the overlord will be unleashed on the world.

 

[micknick]

When he leaves the club ( by mutual consent of course ) the vaults will be swung wide open and the posts of the overlord will be unleashed on the world.

What do you make of all this Woolly?

 

[Saint Domingo]

But how can it be under-achieving?? That's the entire point. Your comparing it to his first season in charge but then when it comes to discussing why he should be sacked don't take that into account.

If you don't think it's underachieving then there's really no point debating anything. Do you think bottom half of the league is where Everton belong? Perhaps in the late 90s early 2000s not when you have a 30 goal a season striker up front and international quality in every position. No way, not having that, that's not Everton. We are better than a lot of teams that mediocrites like you and Davek would have us believe we've fallen behind. It's not entitlement it's valid assessment of squad capability. We have a better squad than Southampton Stoke West Ham Palace West Brom. We shouldn't be behind any of these. We should be up competing with Spurs, and any top teams which underperform (United and Liverpool).

 

[Woolly Blue]

What do you make of all this Woolly?

He'll sweet talk the new owners and will get next season from them to show what he can do. If they don't like what they see, then they'll get shut at the end of 2016/17.

The pressure on him will be much greater than it is under the current board.

 

[jaybx1878]

No-one was blaming Martinez. In not one of my posts did i say it was him to blame.

Watch it again - we are moving back, no one is playing an offside trap. Jags makes a terrible effort of attacking the ball after Besic missed the header.

Not one player is moving forward to play and offside trap.

Look at the image when the ball is coming in - we are moving back..

I went the game and i couldn't spot us trying to play someone offside, we where moving backwards with the ball and no-one tracked Terry. Tell a lie, barry did, but was too late.

Before any of this happened Del had the ball on the half way line, all he had to do was boot it into touch in their half and it was all over, he chose to try and take the man on and got dispossessed leading to the goal.

 

[chazzle_dazzle]

Before any of this happened Del had the ball on the half way line, all he had to do was boot it into touch in their half and it was all over, he chose to try and take the man on and got dispossessed leading to the goal.

which again backs what i was saying about game management... knowing what to do and when.

 

[Lanolin]

Everything you have written there lands at the door of the manager. Player form? Yes. Isolated striker? Managers tactics. Domination without points? Managers tactics. Low confidence? Upto the manager. Injuries? Happen to all managers, others have adapted.

He can't control everything agreed but there seems to be 'if it hadn't of been for......' every single game. When it happens over a long period of time, it's no longer just in game personal errors. Bad finishing, errors in defence, they become structural errors which lie with the manager.[/QUOTE] This is it in a nutshell as far as i'm concerned.

According to some WBA was unlucky, Chelsea was offside, City was poor refereeing, Bournemouth was because McCarthy got injured, United was because Howard Kendall died, Norwich, Palace, Leicester and Stoke were because of the Bournemouth hangover and everything else was Howard's fault.

To me, we seem to drop points in a myriad of ways in different games. Despite some people's perceptions, I don't think each individual issue should be used as a stick to beat Martinez with, but the fact is that on the whole, he is not getting the results he should be, and he has to be held accountable.

 

[micknick]

He'll sweet talk the new owners and will get next season from them to show what he can do. If they don't like what they see, then they'll get shut at the end of 2016/17.

The pressure on him will be much greater than it is under the current board.

Wow.

 

[Woolly Blue]

Wow.

I love his smile though.

 

[matty1878]

He's a proper ted. " we share the frustrations of the fans" regards
To the booing. Erm we booed because you took of our best player you idiot

 

[micknick]

I love his smile though.

No wow as in you answered sensibly!

 

[Khalekan]

Before any of this happened Del had the ball on the half way line, all he had to do was boot it into touch in their half and it was all over, he chose to try and take the man on and got dispossessed leading to the goal.

I had forgotten about that.

Just watched it again and I was yelling at him to launch it the same way I was doing at the time

 

[Woolly Blue]

No wow as in you answered sensibly!

It happens occasionally, though I had to fight off the urge to put a jarg link up for some humping animals.

Martinez is doing lots of good things. The grief he's got after the Baggies result and the 2nd leg of the semi is undeserved, but he's far from perfect.

We've been a bit unlucky in some games this season and have missed out on wins we deserved, but what people forget is that in his first season, especially in the second half of the season, I came away from quite a few games thinking we'd been lucky to get three points, so you could argue that that position and points total flattered us a bit.

There are no obviously massively better candidates for the job who are likely to take the job on at the moment. The likely candidates have flaws too, different flaws to Martinez, but flaws nevertheless. He's a 7/10 manager, he might improve from that, but he probably won't.