From the fence

[davek]

Love the way you keep going back to Moyes, also a massive failure of a manager, the benchmark is set very low for you huh?

I thought he was the benchmark with his 7th/8th place finishes?

That's certainly the impression I get these days. You know my take on it: I couldn't give a monkeys about the best of the rest pat on the head. Those positions stunk when Moyes was here and they still stink now.

Nick a cup and try and play some decent footy, that's the only remit for an Everton manager while we still have carpet baggers in charge. Instead of that though we get names like Koeman thrown into the hat - someone who can give us a solid midtable to 8th place. Hold on, we have one of those already and he also targets cups. Maybe we should stick afterall?

 

[Goat]

I thought he was the benchmark with his 7th/8th place finishes?

That's certainly the impression I get these days. You know my take on it: I couldn't give a monkeys about the best of the rest pat on the head. Those positions stunk when Moyes was here and they still stink now.

Nick a cup and try and play some decent footy, that's the only remit for an Everton manager while we still have carpet baggers in charge. Instead of that though we get names like Koeman thrown into the hat - someone who can give us a solid midtable to 8th place. Hold on, we have one of those already and he also targets cups. Maybe we should stick afterall?

I target Kelly Brook, doesnt mean I will ever win her.

 

[chicoazul]

I target Kelly Brook, doesnt mean I will ever win her.

She's mine bish, lay off.

 

[Goat]

She's mine bish, lay off.

Vitor is the Kelly Brook of Managers.

 

[chicoazul]

Vitor is the Kelly Brook of Managers.

I'd lick him rar out them.

 

[Hong Kong Bluey]

Can't say I am in to this fence sitting malarkey to be honest.

Despite our resource limitations we have a competitive, exciting and promising squad, our concerns lie not with our playing squad but with our manager.

2013/14 - tremendous, looked to be the real deal
2014/15 - concerns surfaced but benefit of the doubt given
2015/16 - the same concerns apparent despite extra resources and a more experienced squad and a more opportune environment

He's a nice guy, talented in several areas but his weaknesses suggest in business parlance he'll never be a winning CEO. He has the ability and talent to be part of a winning team but not as leader, more and more I see him as Director of football development (not sure such a position exists) nurturing young talent and developing individuals rather than a team.

I think he'd do an amazing job at bringing individuals to the point where they maximise their potential but we need a real tactical expert to make us a team greater than the sum of our parts.

He is a nice guy, too nice. Sometimes the players need to be scared of the mgr. Moyesy had that about him. For a polar opposite, imagine Alex Ferguson with our squad, we'd be top of the league....

 

[LAToffee]

I target Kelly Brook, doesnt mean I will ever win her.

It's gonna happen for you. I feel it.

 

[madkiwi]

Trying to trick us into reading something by getting GOT to post it. And the photos aren't even old-timey.

Still I'm sure you mean well.

Is it a picket fence? Pointy them.

 

[Ollie d]

Nah that's the Martinez thread. This thread is for celebrating the moderates in the middle who can't really make their mind up.

This is me exactly,for every thing Martinez does very well there is others I'm not so sure on. I wasn't against his appointment but didn't think he was the new Brian Clough. All I know is a knee jerk sacking could be a disaster ( but then again...) . Very good points mate and put together well.

 

[oldblue]

Can't say I am in to this fence sitting malarkey to be honest.

Despite our resource limitations we have a competitive, exciting and promising squad, our concerns lie not with our playing squad but with our manager.

2013/14 - tremendous, looked to be the real deal
2014/15 - concerns surfaced but benefit of the doubt given
2015/16 - the same concerns apparent despite extra resources and a more experienced squad and a more opportune environment

He's a nice guy, talented in several areas but his weaknesses suggest in business parlance he'll never be a winning CEO. He has the ability and talent to be part of a winning team but not as leader, more and more I see him as Director of football development (not sure such a position exists) nurturing young talent and developing individuals rather than a team.

I think he'd do an amazing job at bringing individuals to the point where they maximise their potential but we need a real tactical expert to make us a team greater than the sum of our parts.

I think he has weaknesses as a manager and I've never understood why modern football clubs still look for one person to deal with all aspects of first team duties.
But I still think it's possible we can get this edge without moving him from the post. The strengths you've listed are massive for a club like ours and he's surprised me in that extent.
Suppose what would be good is a Clough/Taylor type scenario but the problem with that was that Clough as much as I loved him did start to buy into the cult of the leader and the myth of the tactical genius. If someone doesn't acknowledge that outside influences are going to change how well you do at any job, then they can be very destructive.
I'd always go with nice rather than an ego if we are building for the future. I'd say all he probably needs is people around him telling him when to be more ruthless and players on the pitch that nobody wants to upset.

 

[oldblue]

He is a nice guy, too nice. Sometimes the players need to be scared of the mgr. Moyesy had that about him. For a polar opposite, imagine Alex Ferguson with our squad, we'd be top of the league....

Took Fergie well over three years to win fans and press round at United. There were banners at the ground demanding he was sacked. I know it's a bit daft drawing comparisons but we are making a lot of assumptions on either side about what kind of manager Martinez is. Fergie was a one off and while you can't argue with his success there were massive chunks of fortune and uncertainty along the way. He was quite happy to sell Paul Scholes before being talked out of it.
His famed temper and nasty side could be a reason for the success but he may also have succeeded despite it.
One thing he did eventually do was make sure that there were people who drove the team on the pitch. Don't think it will matter if we think a manager is too nice or too ruthless if that happens.

 

[Yorkie]

That's a depressing question. Started going regularly during the very dour early eighties but there's tales of me crying after results in the 70s.
I've got a ceramic Everton money box that's in the shape of a casey had since I was a toddler. Not even sure there's many here would know what a casey is

I'm 23 and a woman. But I take it you are standing by your right to make stuff up

A bit like with Everton, it's hard to know what to believe.

 

[oldblue]

A bit like with Everton, it's hard to know what to believe.

Not if you have the ability to understand very simple context of conversations. Which seems credible to you?

 

[Yorkie]

Not if you have the ability to understand very simple context of conversations. Which seems credible to you?

Don't care, just fun to note you'll lie in order to make a point.

 

[oldblue]

Don't care, just fun to note you'll lie in order to make a point.

Seriously? You want me to explain context? Or do you just want things to deteriorate?
I'm actually a computer generated ad bot.
There you go. I've lied and won.